Service wiring for my 3 car 240VAC electric charging garage!

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JohnKuthe

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
119
Got my first estimate from my electrician, $6800 to upgrade the inside systems+electrical panel and run a PVC pipe to run two service lines to the garage: One 50 amp 240VAC for electric car charging and one 20amp 120VAC for lights, garage door openers, etc.

Needless to say, this will grow as the project progresses, I'm sure.

John Kuthe...
 
Yikes, that's $$$!

Guess it depends what "upgrade the inside systems+electrical panel" entails. Rewiring your entire house? Is this an older house? Sounds like you have a detached garage, how long of a run from the service panel to the garage?
 
Might be worth running a 80A 120/240 feeder to a new panelboard in the garage. Gives you options for future expansion and probably wouldn't be that much more expensive.
 
Aussie said:
Might be worth running a 80A 120/240 feeder to a new panelboard in the garage. Gives you options for future expansion and probably wouldn't be that much more expensive.
+1 thats what I'd do. If the OP has enough room for a full sized 80a 240v breaker, 80a should be enough for 2 30a EVSEs and a couple 20a 120v outlets(of course not using all outlets to their maximum at the same time) as well as some lighting.
A Leaf maxes out at 27.5a so 2 30a full charging Leafs will draw 55a which would leave 9a continuous for each of the 2 120v circuits or 20a each for short term use.
Of course if the OPs home panel is already maxed out or nearing it, it may need to be replaced, which would explain the large price :)
 
CraigM said:
Yikes, that's $$$!

Guess it depends what "upgrade the inside systems+electrical panel" entails. Rewiring your entire house? Is this an older house? Sounds like you have a detached garage, how long of a run from the service panel to the garage?

About 50 or no more more than 100 feet. Yes detached garage. And yes older home, built in 1930's, and electric service was upgraded professionally less than 10 years ago. But we need more space in the main indoor panel for the 240VAC expansion planned.

And yes to all who offered their "alternative plans". They are all good, but THIS is what I'm having done. At least in the initial planning stages, so keep making good suggestions and maybe I'll choose your's and integrate them into MY PLANS!!

John Kuthe...
 
jjeff said:
Aussie said:
Might be worth running a 80A 120/240 feeder to a new panelboard in the garage. Gives you options for future expansion and probably wouldn't be that much more expensive.
+1 thats what I'd do. If the OP has enough room for a full sized 80a 240v breaker, 80a should be enough for 2 30a EVSEs and a couple 20a 120v outlets(of course not using all outlets to their maximum at the same time) as well as some lighting.
A Leaf maxes out at 27.5a so 2 30a full charging Leafs will draw 55a which would leave 9a continuous for each of the 2 120v circuits or 20a each for short term use.
Of course if the OPs home panel is already maxed out or nearing it, it may need to be replaced, which would explain the large price :)

Yep, current panel is maxxed out, Need new more capacious indoor panel, some other upgrade repairs too, like tying the main 3 wire off the power lines tighter to get the line up higher off the ground, new incoming insulators, stuff like that.


I'm definitely having the Cadillac of electrical services installed. Future expansion possibilities too! After all, electic IS the future of personal transportation, and I'm gonna be a PART of this future!! :) Here in the stinky murky Midwest! Saint LOUIS, MO!


John Kuthe...
 
Running two separate lines to garage (even in the same conduit) is silly and the electrician is laughing at you for wanting this. Have them pull a set of wires for a 100a panel in the garage, that way you can add outlets and lights easily and quickly in the future. This will only take up a double breaker in your house panel instead of a double and a single. If you want to future proof, this is the way to do it.
 
A detached building may only be served by a single branch circuit (possibly a multi-wire branch circuit) or feeder. So running a 20 amp circuit and a 50 amp circuit is an NEC violation. You'll need to run a single feeder to the detached garage of the proper size, and install a panel and grounding electrode system at the garage.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
A detached building may only be served by a single branch circuit (possibly a multi-wire branch circuit) or feeder. So running a 20 amp circuit and a 50 amp circuit is an NEC violation. You'll need to run a single feeder to the detached garage of the proper size, and install a panel and grounding electrode system at the garage.

Cheers, Wayne

+1 on this. You need another quote. Not quite this bad but he doesn't know what he is doing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XKZUFu97vus
 
Foschas said:
wwhitney said:
A detached building may only be served by a single branch circuit (possibly a multi-wire branch circuit) or feeder. So running a 20 amp circuit and a 50 amp circuit is an NEC violation. You'll need to run a single feeder to the detached garage of the proper size, and install a panel and grounding electrode system at the garage.

Cheers, Wayne

+1 on this. You need another quote. Not quite this bad but he doesn't know what he is doing.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XKZUFu97vus

I was recommended to this particular electrician by a good friend whose quite the expert on home repairs and remodeling, so I have a lot of faith in his abilities and knowledge about going electrical work, and I'm gonna stick with the guy I found. Building codes vary widely among areas, and this guy is very familiar with with the correct and best way to do electrical work here in STL.

Statements like "Not quite this bad but he doesn't know what he is doing. " are a bunch of BS!! Are YOU a licensed electrician? If not then shut up!

John Kuthe...
 
rosier9 said:
Running two separate lines to garage (even in the same conduit) is silly and the electrician is laughing at you for wanting this. Have them pull a set of wires for a 100a panel in the garage, that way you can add outlets and lights easily and quickly in the future. This will only take up a double breaker in your house panel instead of a double and a single. If you want to future proof, this is the way to do it.

You think "peer pressure" means much if anything to me with statements like "Running two separate lines to garage (even in the same conduit) is silly and the electrician is laughing at you for wanting this"? I'm an old guy, I really DON'T CARE!! You think we need to trench and run SEPARATE PVC pipes for 120 and 240VAC? I DOUBT THAT!!

John Kuthe...
 
JohnKuthe said:
Building codes vary widely among areas
I forgot to give you the National Electric Code reference, it is section 225.30. I would be very surprised if the NEC is not in force in your area.

So I suggest you get an electrical permit for the work being done, and plan on having a single feeder to the detached garage, a panel in the garage, and installing a grounding electrode system at the garage (2 ground rods is sufficient).

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
JohnKuthe said:
Building codes vary widely among areas
I forgot to give you the National Electric Code reference, it is section 225.30. I would be very surprised if the NEC is not in force in your area.

So I suggest you get an electrical permit for the work being done, and plan on having a single feeder to the detached garage, a panel in the garage, and installing a grounding electrode system at the garage (2 ground rods is sufficient).

Cheers, Wayne

Yeah, it's gonna be a long drawn out process, what with checking with the building inspectors "all the time". Or at least as often as WE (my electrician and I) have to! But I learned some important lessons, like it's easier to get forgiveness than permission! ;-)

John Kuthe...
 
I appreciate the independent spirit, but don't see the benefits of not going with sub panel in the garage and just running the two hots, a neutral, ground, and grounding out in the garage... ? Setting aside that it might not be to NEC, I don't see how it gains anyway... Not being snarky, but trying to understand...
 
JimSouCal said:
I appreciate the independent spirit, but don't see the benefits of not going with sub panel in the garage and just running the two hots, a neutral, ground, and grounding out in the garage... ? Setting aside that it might not be to NEC, I don't see how it gains anyway... Not being snarky, but trying to understand...

I will ask my electrician about it. I'm not really sure how a three wire single phase 240VAC line works, and he does. Yeh I know I could look it up, I mean I have a Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering, I;m sure I could completely understand it, if I wanted to (which I don't want to have to do, necessarily!)

John Kuthe,,,
 
JohnKuthe said:
JimSouCal said:
I appreciate the independent spirit, but don't see the benefits of not going with sub panel in the garage and just running the two hots, a neutral, ground, and grounding out in the garage... ? Setting aside that it might not be to NEC, I don't see how it gains anyway... Not being snarky, but trying to understand...

I will ask my electrician about it. I'm not really sure how a three wire single phase 240VAC line works, and he does. Yeh I know I could look it up, I mean I have a Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering, I;m sure I could completely understand it, if I wanted to (which I don't want to have to do, necessarily!)

John Kuthe,,,

If you have some understanding of how it works, it is much harder to be taken advantage of. The proper way to do what you want is by using a two pole (240v) breaker, between 50 and 100 amps (depending on the need for your situation) with an appropriately sized four wire run feeding a sub-panel in the garage. All circuits for the garage should be fed from the new sub-panel. Regardless of your confidence level of the electrician, if he proposes multiple circuits from the existing panel to the garage, get another opinion. Most electricians will come out and give an estimate for free. If an electrician is wanting to run multiple circuits to a detached building, ask why (and then call for another estimate from someone else).
 
Got my first estimate from my electrician, $6800 to upgrade the inside systems+electrical panel and run a PVC pipe to run two service lines to the garage: One 50 amp 240VAC for electric car charging and one 20amp 120VAC for lights, garage door openers, etc.

What the heck is going on. This should take few hours to build. up to 100 bucks for equipment. WTF :?

Buy me a plane ticket, I'll do your garage for 1000 bucks :lol:
 
JohnKuthe said:
... You think we need to trench and run SEPARATE PVC pipes for 120 and 240VAC? I DOUBT THAT!!

John Kuthe...
I'm not sure why you even post here. You never want to hear anything anyone says, and you don't understand what people are telling you anyway. NOBODY said to do that and you deserve to be fleeced. Anyway, I bet your electrician is going to do it right, and you just didn't understand what HE told you, either.
 
arnis said:
Got my first estimate from my electrician, $6800 to upgrade the inside systems+electrical panel and run a PVC pipe to run two service lines to the garage: One 50 amp 240VAC for electric car charging and one 20amp 120VAC for lights, garage door openers, etc.

What the heck is going on. This should take few hours to build. up to 100 bucks for equipment. WTF :?

Buy me a plane ticket, I'll do your garage for 1000 bucks :lol:

Are you a license electrician?

There ARE such things as building codes, etc, you know.

John Kuthe...
 
davewill said:
JohnKuthe said:
... You think we need to trench and run SEPARATE PVC pipes for 120 and 240VAC? I DOUBT THAT!!

John Kuthe...
I'm not sure why you even post here. You never want to hear anything anyone says, and you don't understand what people are telling you anyway. NOBODY said to do that and you deserve to be fleeced. Anyway, I bet your electrician is going to do it right, and you just didn't understand what HE told you, either.

I know quite a but but not everything.

Quit being a p rick!

John Kuthe...
 
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