NEMA 14-50 Charge Time?

Suppose I get the EVSE upgrade and want to charge using NEMA 14-50 at the RV parks. About how much range will I add per hour?

For example, Ive seen people say level 1 charging will add roughly 4-5 miles of range per hour.

I often use a Blink charger that is rated at L2, 4.7Kwh. Would the 14-50 be about on par with that? What is the Kwh rating on it?

It depends a little on the particular version of EVSE Upgrade. The first version was 12 amperes so it would be twice as fast as L1 if source is 240 volts and about 1.7 times as fast as L1 if source is 208 volts. Later versions could be upgraded to 16 amperes or 20 amperes for L2 and remained 12 amperes for L1. At 20 amperes and 240 volts, it would be about 3.3 times as fast as L1. At 16 amperes and 240 volts, it would be about 2.7 times as fast as L1. At 20 amperes and 208 volts, it would be about 2.9 times as fast as L1. At 16 amperes and 208 volts, it would be about 2.3 times as fast as L1. The above estimated rates are assuming your car has a 6 kW onboard charger. If your car has a 3.3 kW onboard charger, then the L2 rate will be about 2.5 times as fast as L1. A 20-ampere EVSE Upgrade operating at 240 volts will allow the car to charge at about the same rate (4.8 kW) as the Blink that is apparently limited to 4.7 kW.

I see. So the limiting factor isnt so much the 240V port your connected to. Its how many amps the EVSE can pull, as well as what the onboard charger is capable of. Am I correct in assuming that most 240V ports are atleast 20 amps?

Also, suppose you have a 120V and a 240V socket, both are limited to 20 amps. Would the charge time be the same, supposing your EVSE is drawing 16 Amps, and you have the 6.6Kwh onboard charger?

I noticed your in Phoenix. The blink charger Im speaking of is the one in Anthem. According to plugshare, it is limited to 4.7Kwh. I frequently drive to Phoenix and back from Prescott Valley on the weekends. I use Midway Nissan Chademo for most of my charging (fast and free), and always need to top off at Anthem ($5) before I head up the I17. I basically have to limit my speed and power output to make it home with 10-20% SOC. With the EVSE upgrade, I can get a charge in Cordes Jct. and not have to worry about the range or driving too slow with the cut throat I17 speeders. It will also allow me to take the back roads through wickenburg, peeples valley, kirkland, tonopah, etc...

What year and model Leaf do you have? I am asking because the upper limit on current of the EVSE Upgrade depends upon the model year of the Nissan EVSE that is upgraded. Since you have the QC port, I am guessing that you have the 6 kW onboard charger. In that case, a 14-50 receptacle would allow your car to charge at the full 6 kW rate with a suitable EVSE at either 208 volts or 240 volts. The EVSE would need to be rated for at least 30 amperes to get the highest charging rate. The maximum you get with EVSE Upgrade depends upon the voltage (208 or 240) and the maximum current allowed which would be 12, 16, or 20 amperes depending upon the upgrade. The input power is voltage times current so here are some examples:
120 V * 12 A = 1440 W or 1.44 kW (this is L1 charging with unmodified Nissan EVSE)
240 V * 12 A = 2880 W or 2.88 kW
240 V * 16 A = 3840 W or 3.84 kW
240 V * 20 A = 4800 W or 4.8 kW
208 V * 12 A = 2496 W or 2.496 kW
208 V * 16 A = 3328 W or 3.328 kW
208 V * 20 A = 4160 W or 4.16 kW

You can see from the above table that L2 charging is at least twice as fast as L1 and even faster at higher current levels. I have used that Blink unit at the Anthem outlet mall a few times, but never paid attention to the full output current. It is nominal 208 volts and the output current is probably throttled to 24, 22, 20, or maybe even 16 amperes (Blink units were originally 30 amperes, but most have been programmed lower to minimize the risk of overheating or even melting the J1772 connector on the cable and/or car). Some Plug Share reviews say 24 amperes with voltage dropping a bit below 208 so that would yield about 4.7 kW.

To answer your question about limitations, the circuit rating is the absolute maximum and the EVSE should be set to draw no more than 80% of the circuit rating. That means that the maximum output EVSE that should be used with a 14-50 receptacle (50-ampere circuit) is 40 amperes. Your car cannot draw more than about 27 amperes at 240 volts or about 31 amperes at 208 volts so a 30-ampere EVSE would give you the fastest charging your car can handle. There is a pilot signal sent by the EVSE to the car that basically tells the car the maximum current it is allowed to draw. The later versions of EVSE Upgrade are adjustable in 1-ampere increments from 6 to 12 amperes at 120 volts and 6 to 20 (or 16) amperes at 208 or 240 volts.

eyedrop said:

Suppose I get the EVSE upgrade and want to charge using NEMA 14-50 at the RV parks. About how much range will I add per hour?

For example, Ive seen people say level 1 charging will add roughly 4-5 miles of range per hour.

I often use a Blink charger that is rated at L2, 4.7Kwh. Would the 14-50 be about on par with that? What is the Kwh rating on it?

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To give you the answer you want, first we need to know your Leaf's on-board charger capacity. If you only have the J1772 port, then you have the 3.3kw charger. If you also have the DCFC port, then you have the 6kw charger.

If you only have the 3.3kw charger then anything greater than a 16amp, 240v EVSE will not give you any faster charging speed.

If you have the DCFC charging capability, then you need a 30a, 240v EVSE to utilize the full charging speed. This gives you approximately 25 miles each hour. To run a 30a EVSE you need a 40amp circuit breaker. Anything less than a 30a EVSE will slow down the charging speed. I think the EVSE upgrade is limited to 12a, 240v. The least expensive option is the DYI Open source EVSE. There are members on this board that will put it together for you for a reasonable price.

If you want to future proof your installation, in case you end up getting a Tesla Model 3, or even future a Leaf with faster charge speed, then I would suggest having it wired with 2AWG wire to handle up to 100amps.

A NEMA 14-50 is a plug outlet for a 240v, 50amp circuit. This will support any EVSE up to 40amps. 40a * 240v = 9.6kw. This is the current limit of the single on-board charger for the Tesla. The Tesla dual charger can handle up to 72amps * 240v = 17.3kw.

The charging speed of the L3 DCFC can be as high as about 125 miles each hour, so only need to be plugged in for about 20 minutes. Some of the DCFC chargers are limited to a lower amps, so give a slower charge, but still much faster than the 25 miles each hour for the 30 amp EVSE.

The charging speed of the Tesla Supercharger is about 170 miles in 30 minutes, VERY much faster than the L3 DCFC.

I hope this helps you to understand charging speeds better.

eyedrop said:

I see. So the limiting factor isnt so much the 240V port your connected to.

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The weakest (slowest) link determines the rate.

watts = volts*amps
kW = watts/1000

Graffi said:

The charging speed of the Tesla Supercharger is about 170 miles in 30 minutes, VERY much faster than the L3 DCFC.

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Perhaps in a big battery, starting from a low SoC. A ~ 50 kwh Model 3 will not have anywhere near that charging performance since the charger will taper off as the battery fills past around 60%. I'll be happy with 100 miles in 20 minutes (meaning an average 75 kW rate), starting from a low SoC. The point I am emphasizing here is that the miles gained per time is far from linear. 100 miles in 20 minutes will likely be nowhere near 200 miles in 40 minutes for a Model 3.

Is it possible to buy the 20amp EVSE upgrade and charge off a 110v 20amp circuit, setting the EVSE to draw 16 amps? According to my calculations, this would yield 1.9Kw. A nice little boost over standard 12A. Its easy to find 110v 20A circuits at businesses with outdoor outlets...

Its unfortunate the EVSE upgrade has a max of 20A. I wonder if they are working on a 30A version for the future? Is there a portable charging chord capable of 30A? Looks like the best Ill get with 20A is 4.8 Kwh... Which is reasonable. But in the future with higher capacity batteries, these slower L2 chargers would take eternity to charge a battery to full.

eyedrop said:

Is it possible to buy the 20amp EVSE upgrade and charge off a 110v 20amp circuit, setting the EVSE to draw 16 amps? According to my calculations, this would yield 1.9Kw. A nice little boost over standard 12A. Its easy to find 110v 20A circuits at businesses with outdoor outlets...

Its unfortunate the EVSE upgrade has a max of 20A. I wonder if they are working on a 30A version for the future? Is there a portable charging chord capable of 30A? Looks like the best Ill get with 20A is 4.8 Kwh... Which is reasonable. But in the future with higher capacity batteries, these slower L2 chargers would take eternity to charge a battery to full.

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I noticed you've been sloppy with units, sometimes getting them right and sometimes not. For the above 20 amp case, you meant 4.8 kW.

kW and kWh are very different metrics. It's the same as confusing gallons with horsepower. Think of kW = horsepower, kWh = gallons. kW is a rate.

If one charges at 1 kW (or 1000 watts) for 6 hours, 6 kWh came out of the wall. If it's at 6 kW for 1 hour, it's also 6 kWh. If it's 1 watt for 6000 hours, it's also 6 kWh.

One pays for electricity at home in cents per kWh. There are a few utilities w/residential plans where they not only bill per kWh but also have demand charges, but that's rare and complicates calculations. (Demand charges aren't unusual on many commercial plans.)

24 kWh Leaf has ~21 kWh usable battery but since charging isn't 100% efficient, it takes more than 21 kWh out of the wall to fully charge a dead Leaf. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155305#p155305 has some figures, but it was before the '13+ Leaf w/optional 6 kW on-board charger.

(BTW, 1 hp = ~0.746 kW and 1 gallon of gasoline=33.7 kWh per many .gov sites.)

As for "Is there a portable charging chord capable of 30A?", sure:
http://shop.quickchargepower.com/JESLA-is-THE-40-amp-J1772-portable-charging-solution-JESLA.htm

Search the below for ones that are 30+ amps and mention plug:
https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-20-to-32
https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-40-to-80

It looks like you've been ignoring several people's questions abot the max wattage of your on-board charger, as THAT can be the limiting factor. What model year and trim do you have?

It is important to understand what I pointed to at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=14728&p=332668#p332668.

If you have only the 3.x kW OBC, then level 2 EVSEs above 16 amps at 240 volts will NOT help you.

eyedrop said:

Is it possible to buy the 20amp EVSE upgrade and charge off a 110v 20amp circuit, setting the EVSE to draw 16 amps? According to my calculations, this would yield 1.9Kw. A nice little boost over standard 12A. Its easy to find 110v 20A circuits at businesses with outdoor outlets...

Its unfortunate the EVSE upgrade has a max of 20A. I wonder if they are working on a 30A version for the future? Is there a portable charging chord capable of 30A? Looks like the best Ill get with 20A is 4.8 Kwh... Which is reasonable. But in the future with higher capacity batteries, these slower L2 chargers would take eternity to charge a battery to full.

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In general, EVSE Upgrade sets the maximum rate for 120V to 12A so that it will not overload a 15A circuit. I tried to have them set up the unit from my 2011 for 16A or 20A maximum on 120 volts, but they would not do it even though I was willing to sign whatever waivers they needed stating I understand the risks and limitations. They set up the 2011 unit with their latest internal hardware/firmware at that time (March 2015) so it is adjustable from 6 to 12 amperes on 120 volts and 6 to 20 amperes on 208/240 volts. The cable, J1772 connector, and internal components limit the maximum to 20 amperes continuous. The later units are limited to 16 amperes maximum.

There are other portable EVSEs available that have higher maximum currents. Juicebox, http://www.quickchargepower.com, and others offer units up to 40 amperes for use with 14-50 receptacles.

To the OP, I found one of your first posts, where you had a screenshot from Leaf Spy. Looks like you have a 2015 S with DCQC, so you have a 6.6 kW charger onboard.

For an inexpensive portable EVSE that will charge your Leaf at full rate, consider this one:

http://www.e-zencar.net/product/evse-32a/

I purchased that one. Price was $285 USD, plus $60 USD for express shipping, plus $15 USD for PayPal fee. Total was $360 USD, shipped to my door. Probably a little less for you, as I'm in Canada so shipping likely more than to US.

There is an easy was to do this. When you get the MPGe figures on fueleconomy.gov, you can calculate the number of miles added per hour using this formula: Miles = MPGe x kW / 33.7. For the 2016 LEAF, this means that every kilowatt of sustained power will add 3.4 miles of range per hour.

Looking at the charging log of a 2014 LEAF, it seems to top out at 6.6 kW at 240 Volt, which translates to roughly 22 miles per hour. Since the LEAF seems to top out at a little less than 28 amps, an early EVSEUpgrade will deliver about 42% of this performance, which is roughly 9 miles per hour. A later-date EVSEUpgrade will deliver 57% of this performance or nearly 13 miles per hour.

This assumes the EPA range rating and a wall-to-wheels efficiency that follow their test cycle. If you end up driving more conservatively, you should get better results. Another thing to keep in mind is the great variability in voltage. While residential locations typically see around 240 Volt, commercial locations often have only about 208 Volt. This is a difference of 14% or about 3 miles per hour, all other things being equal.

OT: There's a name I have not seen in a long while! Welcome back, surfingslovak!

RegGuheert said:

OT: There's a name I have not seen in a long while! Welcome back, surfingslovak!

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+1

alozzy said:

To the OP, I found one of your first posts, where you had a screenshot from Leaf Spy. Looks like you have a 2015 S with DCQC, so you have a 6.6 kW charger onboard.

For an inexpensive portable EVSE that will charge your Leaf at full rate, consider this one:

http://www.e-zencar.net/product/evse-32a/

I purchased that one. Price was $285 USD, plus $60 USD for express shipping, plus $15 USD for PayPal fee. Total was $360 USD, shipped to my door. Probably a little less for you, as I'm in Canada so shipping likely more than to US.

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I second this suggestion! I have one and it works great. I also have a upgraded EVSEupgrade.com which does 20a @ 240v but only 12a @ 120v, if I had paid the $30?? for an adapter cable I was told I would have been given a code to unlock my EVSE to 16a @ 120v, but I chose to go the Zencar route for higher 120v charging, which goes up to 30a @ 120v.

If you want to charge from a 14-50 outlet and have a 6.6kw Leaf I'd say just get the Zencar and forget the upgrade, it will be much more flexible and cost not much more. For amperage of the Zencar you get to pick 4, I'd suggest 12a, 16, 24a and 32a max. I got only 3 adjustments and went with 13a, 20a and 30a. For short term charging(2hrs or less) on a known quality 20a circuit I use the 20a setting(which is actually 19a) and have never had a problem, both for 120v and 240v circuits. 20a @ 120v is >60%% faster than the OEM 12a Leaf EVSE and jumping to 240v it's 3.3x faster than the OEM EVSE.

GerryAZ said:

RegGuheert said:

OT: There's a name I have not seen in a long while! Welcome back, surfingslovak!

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+1

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Thank you, much appreciated! I miss the early days of this forum - so many good things came out of this community. Saw this Facebook post by a taxi driver in Spain the other day. It prominently shows LeafSpy and all of its glorious stats.

The upgrade maximum current depends on the EVSE wire size. For 12A even #14 wire as in the current EVSE's is sufficient. Many older cars had #12 wires and that allows 20A. Really, for L1 12A that is overkill but good for us.

Both my Mercedes B and my eGolf came with EVSEs that had #14 wires. #14 is rated for 15A but you can push it to 16A. I carry an OpenEVSE unit with me that can be switched to more L1 current. On a dedicated 20A circuit it can be set to 16A. If you like to live dangerously it can be set for 20A.

Really, I normally charge at home with L2 at 30A. I sold my previous EVSE with a defective 120V adapter but I never noticed it since I only carried the EVSE for emergency use. It was unused at 120V and I only tested it at 240V.

I had a L6-20 plug on the EVSE and I used a surplus 120V adapter instead of the proper 240V one. EVSE adapters must be labeled as for EVSE only since they are not wired normally.

@surfingslovak,
"Looking at the charging log of a 2014 LEAF, it seems to top out at 6.6 kW at 240 Volt"

That is before the on-board charger. Net is about 6 kW to the battery.
Nothing wrong with your calc, but I find it easier to just multiply the charge rate in kW by my expected miles/kwh to get miles of range per hour.

And by the way, what is this "gallon" you speak of ? :?

SageBrush said:

....And by the way, what is this "gallon" you speak of ? :?

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Auh, the gallon. Would that be a US gallon or a imperial gallon(used in Canada and maybe England??) and different sizes, not to be confused with the pint which is also different sizes, depending if your in the US or Canada or possibly England :? And don't forget the Stone, a unit of weight in the English system, but never used in the US :?
Even England, the father of our crazy mixed up system of measurement, no longer bothers with it, instead having moved onto the much superior metric system, leaving the US kind of alone in our choice