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SalisburySam
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Sun May 28, 2017 9:42 am

dvu wrote:Will I need to upgrade my service panel to a 200 amps?

Our stove is electric and so is our dryer, I can't imagine having all that running at the same time along with charging 2 EV a good thing on our old house service panel of 100 amps.

I agree that you COULD do all of the energy-spreading things mentioned in the several replies above, but do you really want to be the house controller manipulating usage manually, and with all the usage restrictions that will go along with that? On the face of it, you have a 100-amp main and are adding 80 more potential amps of consumption (two 30-amp capacity loads wired to 40-amp circuits presumably). I would be concerned cutting usage this close given the rest of the house would be protected by only 20-amps of cushion, the equivalent of only one room's lighting and outlet circuit. Obviously, my recommendation would be to upgrade source power and forget the multiple controls. Plus, you then have a far better safety factor built in, let alone the additional power should you add more juice consumers in the future. But, you are not me. Also, a power upgrade can be far beyond just changing out the load center, or it may not. To try to be helpful, here are some other factors to consider from when I upgraded our home's power:

1- Will you need to upgrade the power lines coming from the provider's pole (your expense, typically)?
2- Will the provider need to upgrade the transformer you're connected to (their expense, typically)?
3- Is a new meter (their expense) as well as the new load center (your expense) needed?
4- With the Tesla, will you EVER want to upgrade to the 72-amp charging station?
5- Have you inventoried all of your high-current-draw items? I'm guessing it is more than just the stove and dryer. Everything with a compressor can be high-draw, especially at start-up, including any central HVAC or window A/C units, refrigerator(s), dehumidifiers, freezers. Also, like the stove which you can easily control, what about the hot water heater, which is pretty easy to forget to control but draws a lot of juice, more so if you have a tankless unit.
6- Do you know the likely current loads from your other devices like outdoor landscape lighting, floods, can lights, and any lighting you have not already migrated to LEDs? It can be surprising how quickly incandescents and halogens add up just in normal use.
7- How about other items with motors: pool pumps, irrigation pumps, sump pumps, water features, HVAC blowers, bathroom fans, ceiling fans, vacuums.
8- If you were to get a whole house standby generator, how big would that have to be? Just having a competent installer compute this for you could be very telling in whether 100-amp service is adequate and safe, or risky.
9- And consider high-wattage heating devices: toasters, toaster ovens, coffee makers (the ubiquitous Keurig draws about 1350-watts or so, or about 12+ amps at 110v while heating), bread makers, heating blankets, hot pads, radiant flooring, portable room heaters, and so on.
10- If home sale or gifting is ever at issue, and it certainly will be someday, having the upgraded capacity will be an buyer expectation, and without it a detraction to sale.

My point is to really evaluate all of your power consumers against your lifestyle today and in the future before dismissing a power upgrade out of hand because of cost (although I do think 5k is a tad excessive unless you have special circumstances like being located in the middle of a lion preserve for example). It could be a reasonable investment for safety, peace of mind, to eliminate the unending power balancing act, and enhance your home's sale ability.

Good luck with your decision and implementation!
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Sun May 28, 2017 6:56 pm

SalisburySam wrote:I agree that you COULD do all of the energy-spreading things mentioned in the several replies above, but do you really want to be the house controller manipulating usage manually, and with all the usage restrictions that will go along with that? On the face of it, you have a 100-amp main and are adding 80 more potential amps of consumption (two 30-amp capacity loads wired to 40-amp circuits presumably).
Good luck with your decision and implementation!


Doing an energy audit of your house is fairly easy and worthwhile

That said the most advanced load share systems would be a full 100 amp breaker upstream of your main box,

The most advanced systems would throttle the EVSEs output based on the home loads, the full 100 amps would be available to home + EVSE loads and throttle the EVSEs down as home loads go up.

Key is cost, sometimes these systems are quite cheap and he can always upgrade his service anytime , any loadshare systems would still work if he upgrades his panel.

So agreed
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GlennD
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Sun May 28, 2017 7:12 pm

Excluding other loads a 100A panel is good for 80A EVSE loads. When you consider other loads two 30A eves's are doable. All J1772 cars respect the current offered so a model 3 will happily charge at 30A,

I upgraded my service to 200A because by FPE panel caught on fire one morning. The 200A panel is required by local code but the only thing it gets me is more slots, In a non- electric home 100A is fine. The biggies are an electric stove and water heater. All my appliances are natural gas.
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BiggieJohn
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Wed May 31, 2017 11:25 am

40A is the "over rating" for a 30A aka 7Kw. 3.6Kw chargers are 15A. If both cars have 6.6Kw chargers then you would need to stagger charging times. Only Teslas can actually use 40A or even up to 80A with a proper Tesla HPWC, but those are mainly intended for commercial locations.
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jlv
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:34 am

While it's unknown what the Tesla Model 3 will come with, it's likely going to have the same portable EVSE they are using today. It pulls up to 40A (on a 50A circuit) and can add 29 miles/hour on a Model S. (it will pull less depending upon the circuit you plug it into, or you can drop the current manually). I don't think the OP needs to worry about buying a dual charger on the 3 (even if they offer it, which again is unclear).

Back to the OP: I think you still want to just have a single EVSE and not spend thousands to upgrade your service.
Last edited by jlv on Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DuncanCunningham
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:12 am

aluminumwelder wrote:$3000 to $5000 to upgrade a service panel that costs $150 is ridiculous. Several years ago I needed to upgrade the service panel in my home, I got quotes around $1100. that was a rip off too, would up hirinig friend electrician did it for $150.

i just had my main service panel upgraded from 100amps to 200amps. It cost less than $2000, in fact I think it was closer to $1700 in the end.

I had mine upgraded, just last week, because I'm in the process of installing solar. They were looking for some breakers to bring everything into the main panel and we were short. I also saw a day when I would be putting more load on my system anyway.. as I moved all services from gas to electric so I went with it. the install was not done "as well as doing the solar" it was a day on it's own. They will be coming back another day to complete my wiring for the solar side of things.

I'm glad I did the upgrade.

Shop around. $3000 is a lot more than I was charged. For my last house a electrician came out, back in 2014, to to look at our panel and wanted $5000 to upgrade it and I quickly showed him the shortest way to leave our subdivision. there is a lot of price gouging going on right now because there is a an abundance of work for them. You'll find a team that will do it for a proper price.. keep shopping.

Had I got a friend who could have installed it for me at a much reduced price.. like above, I'd have done that too. I live in Utah and you are allowed to do all the work yourself but if I did the inspector would have spent more time going over it and he might have insisted that I did hire a proper electrician to do it anyway.
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GlennD
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:53 pm

My upgrade cost $2500 in Southern California. Prices will vary per region but I think the city got more than their share. I demanded that the upgrade had a permit and it was inspected. Good thing since I and my electrician did not know that Anaheim does not allow splices in the service wires. They ended up at their cost moving the panel down 6 inches so the existing wires would reach.

It was that or pay thousands to run new wires in conduit instead of the 1976 direct burial wires. The city would love to see conduits but they allow grandfathered wires. I was just lucky the wires were big enough for 200A service.
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:35 pm

Check with your utility if they can split the service into a second meter for EV charging only, a fairly simple affair for overhead feeds which often doesn't require feeder wire upgrade, as a bonus depending on utility you may get a better EV rates on that meter.
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:25 am

I plan to eventually upgrade my panel to 200A (already have a panel, just need to get the electrician and the cash to pay him)
But I'd be doing it more for other reasons (want a hot tub)

My short term plan is Chevy starts charging at 7PM when the rates go down, LEAF starts charging at 10:30PM when we usually are heading to bed and the Volt is likely just about done charging anyway.

This avoids the likelyhood of having 2 EVSEs, AC, and Oven/Dryer all running together.

We've had 1 L2 going for 3 years without any issues at all. Timing them so that they are not runnning at the same time is easy, both cars have charging timers built in.

Aside from that, I bought the SL with the DC Quick charge port for a reason. There's an L3 station with free power on my way to and from work. :) It's at the utility company's office. They wanted a nice display of a solar panel charging cars out front, so they give free L2 and L3 charges.
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davewill
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Re: Anyone charging 2 EV's using 100amps mains?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:21 pm

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that the new Tesla Wall Connectors can share a circuit. You could buy one from Tesla for your Model 3, and a J1772 converted one from Tony and have them share a single 50a circuit.

http://shop.quickchargepower.com/J-Wall ... WALL40.htm
http://shop.quickchargepower.com/J-Wall ... ALL80A.htm

If both cars need to charge they each get 20a, if only one needs to charge (or only one is plugged in) it gets the whole 40a. That way you can just plug both cars in whenever it's convenient and have a fair degree of confidence they will both be charged in the morning. Expensive, but a lot cheaper than a panel upgrade. If you later move, or decide to do the upgrade, you can have them both share a bigger circuit.
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