Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Thu May 25, 2017 9:23 pm

eatsleafsandshoots wrote:HAHAHAH "morally bankrupt" to do what I said I'm going to do. Keep it up, I'm rolling over here.


What?! Do you relish being criticized? I was referring to his work buddy. As the others have said, your intent does not match your posting title.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs]

SageBrush
Posts: 1217
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Thu May 25, 2017 9:33 pm

OP said " I'm OK with not getting a new battery if it means my original one still meets my needs."

Then the question is whether a degraded battery not yet eligible for warranty meets your needs. Or your future needs.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

webb14leafs
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:43 am
Delivery Date: 27 Mar 2017

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Fri May 26, 2017 4:57 am

Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't understand why this is such a big deal. The guy is just looking to challenge the durability of the battery. He's not doing anything illegal, and I'm sure he recognizes that there is a strong chance it will just inconvenience him.

Based on what I know, the plan to drive the heck out of the battery will not work. Battery degradation is more correlated with temperature, and charging conditions.

The fastest way to degrade your battery would be to quick charge it all the time, even when it is not depleted down to 20%. Park in the sun. Charge in the sun. Move as close to the sun as possible.

magico13
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:39 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Fri May 26, 2017 6:42 am

I think a lot of the controversy in this thread goes back to something the OP themselves said:

eatsleafsandshoots wrote:Warranties cover manufacturer defects, geniuses. Products that are "intentionally abused" aren't covered by a warranty - by definition


The question then is "Project: Destroy my Battery" really a result of a defect? Or just somebody intentionally abusing the battery? It's the former if the battery is supposed to be able to handle someone going out of the way to abuse it. And the latter if that's outside of the realm of "normal driving habits". Based on the comments like "why not just try to beat the **** out of this thing and see if I can get a new battery before my 8 years is up" it sounds more like the latter to me, meaning Nissan might not replace the battery if they think it's been purposefully abused. They'll probably replace it anyway out of goodwill, but it would hurt every LEAF driver if their goodwill was exhausted by people "cheating the system" like this and getting replacements that aren't for defects. If it's just a few people doing this among a larger group of people with legitimate problems with their batteries from normal usage, then I'm pretty neutral towards that. It happens when you've got thousands of people involved in something.

To the OP, why not just drive normally instead of purposefully going out of your way to damage the battery? You don't have to baby it. Just drive it like an ICE car, thousands of people do that already with their LEAFs, the people on this forum are just the ones who are more inclined to read up on things like battery degradation and decide that it's simple to change some behaviors in return for the car lasting longer compared to the tons of LEAF owners who aren't reading up on stuff like that.
2015 SV w/ QC

SageBrush
Posts: 1217
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Fri May 26, 2017 8:57 am

webb14leafs wrote:Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't understand why this is such a big deal. The guy is just looking to challenge the durability of the battery.

You ARE missing the point.

OP wants to stress the car. The LEAF is less able to tolerate the sort of driving he wants from the car than a garden variety ICE and his behaviour is almost certainly to show up as accelerated battery aging. He gets that, and hopes that Nissan will cover the accelerated aging.

They will if the battery reaches 8 bars within 8 years or 100k miles.

The answers are fairly simple:
1. We don't know if he will reach 8 bars before the warranty expires
2. He has to decide if 11, 10, and 9 bar capacity works for him during the warranty period.
3. After 8 yrs/100k miles the battery is what it is.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

ElectricEddy
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:42 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2016
Leaf Number: 313506
Location: Nanaimo, B.C.

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Fri May 26, 2017 7:44 pm

SageBrush wrote:
webb14leafs wrote:Maybe I'm missing the point, but I don't understand why this is such a big deal. The guy is just looking to challenge the durability of the battery.

You ARE missing the point.

OP wants to stress the car. The LEAF is less able to tolerate the sort of driving he wants from the car than a garden variety ICE and his behaviour is almost certainly to show up as accelerated battery aging. He gets that, and hopes that Nissan will cover the accelerated aging.

They will if the battery reaches 8 bars within 8 years or 100k miles.

The answers are fairly simple:
1. We don't know if he will reach 8 bars before the warranty expires
2. He has to decide if 11, 10, and 9 bar capacity works for him during the warranty period.
3. After 8 yrs/100k miles the battery is what it is.


"This warranty covers any repairs needed to return battery capacity level of nine bars on the vehicles capacity level gauge. If possible the Lithium-Ion battery components will be repaired or replaced, and the original Lithium-Ion battery will be returned to the vehicle. If necessary, the Lithium-Ion battery will be replaced with either a new or re manufactured Lithium-Ion battery. Any repair or replacement made under this Lithium-Ion battery Capacity Coverage may not return your Lithium-Ion battery to an "as new" condition with all 12 battery capacity bars, but will provide the vehicle with a capacity level of nine bars or more on the battery capacity level gauge. "
So that pretty much spells it out right out of the warranty book.
If one makes the choice to rapidly accelerate the capacity degradation then they may be in for an unpleasant surprise and having to live with a 9 bar car for the duration of the 8 years.
Lets also not forget a software update to the the bms may reprogram to achieve those 9 bars or to delay the 9th bar drop.
The car is meant to be driven so IMHO have fun with it feel free to take it to it's designed limits , but at the same token remember the above.
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

eatsleafsandshoots
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:23 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Sat May 27, 2017 5:35 am

Hi all, Yes, some levity was intended with my last few posts - at the end of the day, we're all the nerds with the electric car. Thanks for everyone's input.

soldcake
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:47 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jun 2016
Leaf Number: 311414

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:05 am

soldcake wrote:On the other hand, the holy-grail of EV is "the highest mileage with the lowest battery degradation".
Is there a thread for this "search of the holy-grail"? it will be good. :-p


yea ! it will be good. ("Indiana Jones" theme music in the background) :D
May-2017 6866mi 72.98Ahr 91%SOH 87.43%Hx
Feb-2017 4442mi 73.9Ahr 93%SOH 88.6%Hx
Sep-2016 1050mi 74.3Ahr 93%SOH 89%Hx
2016 Leaf White SV + no premium package + rain visor + 40psi :roll:

User avatar
davewill
Posts: 4793
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, US

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:21 am

The only problem I see is that evidence suggests that "babying" is not all that big a factor. Degradation seems to be dependent on your local climate more than anything else. That's why the guy who lives at 8000ft isn't seeing much degradation...his weather is cool.
2014 Rav4 EV, Blizzard Pearl White
2011 LEAF SL w/QC, Blue Ocean, returned at end of lease

2k1Toaster
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:45 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 420903

Re: Project: Destroy my Battery

Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:44 am

davewill wrote:The only problem I see is that evidence suggests that "babying" is not all that big a factor. Degradation seems to be dependent on your local climate more than anything else. That's why the guy who lives at 8000ft isn't seeing much degradation...his weather is cool.


That's correct, it is based much more off of temperature than driving style.

I live at 8000ft (and we just had a half-foot of snow this week, first of the season) but the summer temps can get fairly high too. We are in a semi-arid desert, so we just get huge temperature swings. Nothing like living by water where it regulates the daily temps, we can swing 70F in a day no problem.

I still drive my Leaf like I stole it, still have all my capacity bars, GOM still shows 86mi after a full 100% charge. It charges to 100% all the time and sits there. I do absolutely nothing to baby the car and abuse it. But I figure I treat it like the majority of non-tech people would and the car should take that. So far, it has.
2013 Nissan Leaf SV with every option
2013 Prius C Package 4
2012 Lexus RX450h
2006 Prius Gen II, pIV
2005 Honda Civic Hybrid
2001 Honda Civic EX
1997 Honda Prelude SH
1981 DeLorean DMC12
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