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Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:29 pm
by Nubo
fotajoye wrote:Disagree, not disgruntled at all; like the car fine; the engineers did a good job; I'm disappointed in Nissan's management not making better progress in EV range improvements over a long seven-eight year period. I choose to blame it on making decisions and policies based on an obsolete ICE business model and playing it safe to keep the stock holders satisfied and thus their current management employed. I still recommend a lease for those considering a Leaf until Nissan gets their act together. Hopefully, that will occur soon and they make it through the EV transition.


The improvement seems in-line with battery improvements overall -- about 7% per year as a whole. Effectively double the range of the original LEAF. To me that's more than "incremental". Bolt offers more range but it's a different class of car. Tesla will bring more, but for a significantly more expensive car both in purchase price and likely for total cost of ownership. Nissan is aiming at a deliberate sweet spot to balance capability with affordability. That may not be what you're looking for but again I find it hard to be disappointed in a doubling in 7 years, with another 50% expected within a year.

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:11 pm
by fotajoye
Nubo wrote:
fotajoye wrote:Disagree, not disgruntled at all; like the car fine; the engineers did a good job; I'm disappointed in Nissan's management not making better progress in EV range improvements over a long seven-eight year period. I choose to blame it on making decisions and policies based on an obsolete ICE business model and playing it safe to keep the stock holders satisfied and thus their current management employed. I still recommend a lease for those considering a Leaf until Nissan gets their act together. Hopefully, that will occur soon and they make it through the EV transition.


The improvement seems in-line with battery improvements overall -- about 7% per year as a whole. Effectively double the range of the original LEAF. To me that's more than "incremental". Bolt offers more range but it's a different class of car. Tesla will bring more, but for a significantly more expensive car both in purchase price and likely for total cost of ownership. Nissan is aiming at a deliberate sweet spot to balance capability with affordability. That may not be what you're looking for but again I find it hard to be disappointed in a doubling in 7 years, with another 50% expected within a year.

Good debate here; The promised future 200 mile Leaf is a result of Nissan exiting the battery business and buying the technology from LG Chem, not the strides accomplished by the joint venture between Nissan and NEC, AESC. Seems to me if others, including me, could see battery tech as the driving factor behind EVs, why not pull out the stops and rob, plunder and buy, if necessary, to gain the lead? It's as if the entire group of legacy automakers decided to drag out battery development. Perhaps it's just normal in the car business to move slow, I don't know; but, with Tesla in the mix, that might not be prudent any longer.

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:13 pm
by Sondy132001
fotajoye wrote:
Nubo wrote:
fotajoye wrote:Disagree, not disgruntled at all; like the car fine; the engineers did a good job; I'm disappointed in Nissan's management not making better progress in EV range improvements over a long seven-eight year period. I choose to blame it on making decisions and policies based on an obsolete ICE business model and playing it safe to keep the stock holders satisfied and thus their current management employed. I still recommend a lease for those considering a Leaf until Nissan gets their act together. Hopefully, that will occur soon and they make it through the EV transition.


The improvement seems in-line with battery improvements overall -- about 7% per year as a whole. Effectively double the range of the original LEAF. To me that's more than "incremental". Bolt offers more range but it's a different class of car. Tesla will bring more, but for a significantly more expensive car both in purchase price and likely for total cost of ownership. Nissan is aiming at a deliberate sweet spot to balance capability with affordability. That may not be what you're looking for but again I find it hard to be disappointed in a doubling in 7 years, with another 50% expected within a year.

Good debate here; The promised future 200 mile Leaf is a result of Nissan exiting the battery business and buying the technology from LG Chem, not the strides accomplished by the joint venture between Nissan and NEC, AESC. Seems to me if others, including me, could see battery tech as the driving factor behind EVs, why not pull out the stops and rob, plunder and buy, if necessary, to gain the lead? It's as if the entire group of legacy automakers decided to drag out battery development. Perhaps it's just normal in the car business to move slow, I don't know; but, with Tesla in the mix, that might not be prudent any longer.



I kind of have to agree with you, I bought a used 2012 SL, just so I could drive the car pool lane by myself (So Cal) and then I kind of got obsessed with my Leaf. I have only had 2 problems getting home with not enough battery and today will be my 3rd, I have 19 and generally I need 25, so I will milk her home and sit in traffic ugh (405). But when I bought her I figured Nissan or Tesla would make a bitchen battery with more mileage that I could buy for around $7k or less and I'd buy a new battery and have a new car all over again. My car is in pretty good shape. My battery warranty ran out November 2016 and I still had 9 bars, still do now so I didn't qualify for the 'free' battery. I am down to about 45-55 miles on my car after I trickle charge it all night from home. My drive is 35 miles roundtrip, but the car sucks it up when you drive the car pool lane at 65mph +

I paid the deposit for the Tesla Model 3, but then I read here about the 150 miles for the Leaf and it was roughly $15k cheaper, well for 50 miles I'd go with the leaf. But I am kind of trying to figure out if I should buy it or lease it ? Maybe I can buy the 200 mile battery when I need one and it'll fit in my 2018 Leaf ??

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:41 pm
by LeftieBiker
Lease it. If you love it you can still buy it, and there may be end of lease residual discounts for the 2018 if the car gets improved in a year or two.

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:45 pm
by DanCar
Sondy132001 wrote:I paid the deposit for the Tesla Model 3, but then I read here about the 150 miles for the Leaf and it was roughly $15k cheaper, well for 50 miles I'd go with the leaf. But I am kind of trying to figure out if I should buy it or lease it ? Maybe I can buy the 200 mile battery when I need one and it'll fit in my 2018 Leaf ??
What do you think of getting a Bolt? Only $240 a month lease with zero down at some dealers. http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/

If you say the Bolt isn't cool (econobox), has uncomfortable seats, or don't like the lack of adaptive cruise control, then I would agree and better to wait for the Leaf with ProPilot. :)

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:41 pm
by fotajoye
Same here, reservation for a TM3 also. But, I gotta tell 'ya as an old race car driver, I'm liking the TM3 even more as I read about it; the suspension is almost the same as a BMW 3 series car, maybe even better, i.e., RWD, double wishbone in front, multi-link in the rear with a 5.6 sec 0-60 time; it should handle nicely and with the torque to come off the corners, wow howdy, essentially it's a BMW with an electric motor but with more features. Hard for me to look at a FWD car, like the Leaf, that goes 70 miles less. I see the TM3 as a electric cult car much the same as my old Datsun 240/ with a turbo added; if Tesla has it's act together and the battery has a good lifetime spec, it would be hard to turn down buying it; the downside: of course, it's more expensive.

Yes, it's tough when you have to nurse the car so much, especially when you know your problem could be solve by Nissan offering an upgraded battery replacement which would improve the value of your car and extent your use of a darn good commuter car for another 6-10 years. After our mutual experience with Nissan, I would want to be sure Nissan will commit, in writing, to installing the 200 mile battery before I bought the lower range 2018 MY; also. chances are you would be spending more money on the Leaf plus two batteries that you would spend on the 220 mile range TM3.

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:36 pm
by bowthom
Hello,
I intend to replace the cells in my leaf battery if it is at all possible affordably. I'm past 6 years and 65k miles and I love the car.

Don

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:39 pm
by cwerdna
bowthom wrote:Hello,
I intend to replace the cells in my leaf battery if it is at all possible affordably. I'm past 6 years and 65k miles and I love the car.

Good luck with that. Either take up Cor's work of swapping cells from newer 24 kWh packs (a lot of work) into a 2011 or 2012 casing: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=21997 or try to get Nissan to cut you a deal on a new pack. I'd say the latter is the better route.

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:11 am
by LeftieBiker
Since the cells usually age uniformly, there is little point in trying to replace a few cells in a degraded pack. It's only worth it when a small number of cells are unusually low in capacity due to a manufacturing defect.

Re: Finally 2018 nisan leaf 150mi range

Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:23 am
by SageBrush
Sondy132001 wrote:I paid the deposit for the Tesla Model 3, but then I read here about the 150 miles for the Leaf and it was roughly $15k cheaper, well for 50 miles I'd go with the leaf.

The Model 3 starts at $36k.