Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:43 am

leaftryer wrote:I haven't seen it, but I would think 1980's wiring is relatively modern as far as house wiring goes.


I agree with you. I have a house built in the 1950's and it's wiring works just fine. As long as rodents and termites haven't been gnawing at the insulation, the wiring should be fine. If the outlets show any sign of damage though, then they should be replaced as a precaution.

But back to your original question. The problem is that battery degradation is time-based as well. So even if you can find a 2013 with 11-12 bars remaining, the battery will still degrade over the years. Will it self-degrade below 50miles of range? I don't think I've seen anyone claim one way or the other.

So I think you need to also state how many years of service is this car to provide?
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs]

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7204
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:39 pm

I have a house built in the 1950's and it's wiring works just fine. As long as rodents and termites haven't been gnawing at the insulation, the wiring should be fine.


Are you assuming that your wiring will give you some kind of safe warning when it starts to fail under load, or that if it hasn't failed yet, it never will? Neither is correct. I'm also using wiring from that era in my garage, but I'm not complacent about it - it worries me. At least I'm dedicating a whole circuit to charging.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 269
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 1:40 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Are you assuming that your wiring will give you some kind of safe warning when it starts to fail under load, or that if it hasn't failed yet, it never will? Neither is correct. I'm also using wiring from that era in my garage, but I'm not complacent about it - it worries me. At least I'm dedicating a whole circuit to charging.


Hardly, but assuming 30 years is enough to degrade insulated copper is going too far isn't it? As long as he's not drawing more than 12 amps off a 15amp circuit, 14gauge insulated copper cabling can handle the load.

If, due to rats or bad nails, the cable is nicked so that the internal resistance causes the cable temp to rise, the current draw will increase to the point of tripping the circuit breaker. That's what they're there for. @ which point, an electrician is needed to inspect the cable and possibly run a new one. Fires happen from faulty outlets or bad circuit breakers, not bad cabling.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs]

CraigM
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:12 pm

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:51 pm

Realize the garage 120V circuit may (likely) feed other areas of the house. My garage outlet is on the same circuit as the wall outlets in the bathrooms. I discovered this the second evening I had my Fiat 500e charging and the wife plugged in her hair dryer.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7204
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:10 pm

If, due to rats or bad nails, the cable is nicked so that the internal resistance causes the cable temp to rise, the current draw will increase to the point of tripping the circuit breaker. That's what they're there for.


Assuming the breaker works properly - many don't. That's why the circuit has to be checked first.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

aluminumwelder
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:39 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Jun 2014

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:34 pm

Just spend some mkney on a proper 220v hook up should cost about $500

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1465
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:26 pm

Check behind dryer for existing 240-volt receptacle (some houses were set up for both electric and gas dryers). If house was built in the 1980s, then copper wire should have been used for 120-volt circuits and garage receptacles were probably supplied through GFCI receptacle(s) in bathroom(s). Washer may be on dedicated non-GFCI circuit. If house was built in 1960s or 1970s, have an electrician check the 120-volt circuits because aluminum wiring may have been used. Aluminum wiring is OK if connections to devices such as breakers, switches, and receptacles were installed and maintained properly. Improper connections will get hot and could cause a fire with sustained charging current (circuit breakers will not protect against this because current does not exceed breaker rating until insulation fails after fire has already started).

Charging time depends upon miles driven between charges regardless of battery capacity. A new battery will require over 24 hours to charge from dead at 120 volts, while a deteriorated battery will require less time, but allow less driving. I still made my 52-mile round trip commute (26 miles each way) with A/C use in my 2011 that was down to 8 capacity bars before Nissan replaced the battery so a used car with a battery in good condition should be able to handle 40 miles on a charge for several years. Do not expect to get more than 3 or 4 miles of driving for each full hour of charging at 120 volts, regardless of battery capacity.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

User avatar
JimSouCal
Posts: 860
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:54 pm

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:47 pm

Well, my 9 Bar 2011 LEAF would be perfect, but I plan to keep it to do exactly what you are suggesting...excepting that I have an oil gasser to use for trips, etc.

There seems to be lots anecdotal evidence that the Japanese built cars have fewer problems than the original US built ones...

That said, if the charger goes, or something else out of warranty, it's a heck of a paperweight...

And I don't find the car complicated at all, and do much of my charging overnight on L1. And at my original house, used the same garage outlet on the same circuit as the garage opener...

So I am more supportive, but I'd go for a Japanese build instead of the 2013...

Good luck...

Leafabout
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:33 pm
Leaf Number: 413354
Location: North Carolina

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:44 am

Hope this isn't too far off the topic, but does anyone know if I can have the 107 mi. battery that is currently in the new Leafs put into my 2013 Leaf? I have no problems at the moment. I'm just thinking what I might need down the road.

Reddy
Posts: 1437
Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:09 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 006828
Location: Pasco, WA

Re: Question about buying older Leaf with degraded battery

Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:31 pm

My 9-bar 2011 Leaf still gets about 50 mi in summer and 30-40 mi in winter. I've been charging at 12 amp and 120 V since day one in a 1960s house. Yes, the Leaf can charge on the same circuit as the garage door opener, including when it goes up and down (remember that's only for a few seconds and the circuit can handle 15 amps for short periods of time). However, do not charge an EV and run a washing machine on the same circuit. The washer has a very high initial draw each time it turns on. This is more damaging to the circuit breaker and it's the only one that I've had to replace in my house (also it was a 20-amp circuit, so I'm assuming most other locations have the same).

So, yes, the Leaf will work for an older retired person who only drives 20 mi/day using a standard 120V. However, the receptacle should be good and tight (I replaced mine) and you must not allow the weight of the EVSE brick to hang on the receptacle. I've mounted mine on the wall and leave it plugged in continuously, driving around town without any means of recharging outside the home. I only unplug and put it in the car for rare trips outside of town (in the first 3-4 years and probably not anymore). I can easily replace 50 mi of range overnight and some nights I don't bother to charge, parking outside to help radiatively cool the battery. Unfortunately for me, all of this babying of the battery means that I will miss the 5 yr, 60,000 mile 8-bar warranty replacement by about 2 or 3 years. :cry:
Reddy
2011 SL; 9 bar, 46.44 AHr; 40,067 mi; rcv'd Aug 18, 2011
Long: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... al#p226115"
Cold: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 60#p243033"

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