Looking Into Buying A Used Leaf

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LeafWannaBe984

New member
Joined
Sep 29, 2017
Messages
3
Hi All,

I'm in the market for a used car and found out about the insanely low prices for used Nissan Leafs. I've been looking 2014 and 2015 models. 2014 models I'm seeing from $8-$9 while 2015 models are around $10-11K. Most models are under 25K miles and sometimes less than 15K miles

I'm a little concerned about the battery replacement and battery life issues as they get older. Most of the cars I have purchased I tend to keep for a while (My current Civic just hit 200K miles).

I'm looking at a 5 year loan for a used Leaf. I'm debating either this or a conventional gas used car for around the same price (probably a Ford Fiesta, Kia, or Hyundai). That $5500 battery replacement cost freaks me out a little --- though I usually spend quite a bit around the 150K mile line for my cars on maintenance (timing belts, oil change, tune-up, etc). My usual expensive maint items is around the 180K mark and has been stuff like struts, pumps, etc. I'v never had to replace a transmission or anything major like that in a house before except for an AC.

I live in Texas --- so it can get very hot here --- I believe that is a factor since you have to blast AC here to survive in the summer.

I also do not have a L2 charger- I'm planning on just using a conventional plug. There is a Nissan Dealership within biking distance from me with a free EV station.
 
LeafWannaBe984 said:
Hi All,

I'm in the market for a used car and found out about the insanely low prices for used Nissan Leafs. I've been looking 2014 and 2015 models. 2014 models I'm seeing from $8-$9 while 2015 models are around $10-11K. Most models are under 25K miles and sometimes less than 15K miles

I'm a little concerned about the battery replacement and battery life issues as they get older. Most of the cars I have purchased I tend to keep for a while (My current Civic just hit 200K miles).

I'm looking at a 5 year loan for a used Leaf. I'm debating either this or a conventional gas used car for around the same price (probably a Ford Fiesta, Kia, or Hyundai). That $5500 battery replacement cost freaks me out a little --- though I usually spend quite a bit around the 150K mile line for my cars on maintenance (timing belts, oil change, tune-up, etc). My usual expensive maint items is around the 180K mark and has been stuff like struts, pumps, etc. I'v never had to replace a transmission or anything major like that in a house before except for an AC.

I live in Texas --- so it can get very hot here --- I believe that is a factor since you have to blast AC here to survive in the summer.

I also do not have a L2 charger- I'm planning on just using a conventional plug. There is a Nissan Dealership within biking distance from me with a free EV station.

How long is your average commute?

The 2015 has what's referred to as a "Lizard" battery that is better at withstanding heat, but I'm not sure how much better it is.

Generally, I would say buy it if 60% of the current range meets your commuting needs, but that might be a little pessimistic.

Of course, you need to download Leafspy and check the current stats on the battery.

The $5,500 shouldn't freak you out. You'll save enough on gas and maintenance over the next 5 years to cover it if you need it.
 
I don't know where the indecision is here. If you keep cars a long time, there is no question..... Buy New. Why but a car where its best years have been enjoyed by the first owner (including the battery aging 3-4 years).

Buy new. Beat the crap out of the car until the battery goes (6-8 years?). At that point you got your first half use out of the car (80-100K miles). By that time, the new batteries will be better and cheaper, and you are then paying (investing) for the Second half of the car's life (100-200K miles)....

I hate when people complain that they will have to PAY for a new battery... They got the first battery for free (included with the car). What you pay for the second battery is for the use of the car for the 8-16 year period of the car's life. So in16 years, you paid zero in gas, oil, fluids, belts, exhaust, tune ups and drive train repairs. Where is the negative??
 
This car would have a very light commute. No more than 30 miles roundtrip. The main issue would just be getting stuck in a traffic jam honestly. Yearly it will likely have less than 12K miles a year.

So 2015 models and up only have the lizard batteries? I would prefer to get a model that has the lizard batteries.

I usually hold on to to a car for about 12-14 years. I'm looking at used now because a New Honda is pretty expensive nowadays (would likely be over $20K). I thought about new for a Leaf, but that depreciation is very high and the used cars are very well priced.

New is around $26K for a Leaf, but 2015 used I'm finding for under $10K or bearly over that :shock:
 
The "lizard pack" is only known to be present in the 2015 Leaf. In 2016 they went to a larger 30kwh pack, but it seems to be terrible, degradation-wise, especially in hot climates. Given your conditions and concerns, I wouldn't get a Leaf.
 
My wife had a Honda CRV 2000. We got it in 2004 and it was a great vehicle up until we sold it in 2015 for $3000 so it cost us about $10000 over those years in depreciation and about $1000 yr in others costs and $200 in gas each month. in 2012 it had a valve go back... Shop wanted $4700 to fix. And that was to bring the car to the same.. no improvement in mileage, performance or anything.. just because a valve was off and it would fail emissions. We were lucky, I am crazy enough to do stuff myself. It cost us about $800 and I did all the work.

With a EV a new battery basically gives you a NEW car all over again. This car has little issue with wear and tear items as it doesn't have all of that junk under the hood or elsewhere.. so I like the idea of getting my car back to a new version with that lump of cash. My wife's Leaf is much cheaper to run than her CRV.
 
I got mine used. 2011 with 8 bars at 58k for $4,200. Original owner was kind enough to meet me at the dealer prior to title transfer to install new Lizard battery for dealer split 20/80% with $1500 out of pocket, including TCU update. Leaves me with a darn near new car for less than $6k. Still needs a 12v battery and tires, but likely the only maintenance I'll need to do for quite some time. IMHO, it's a better deal than 2014/15 model, despite heater improvements, as I get newer battery and for $2k less.
 
Supersleeper said:
I got mine used. 2011 with 8 bars at 58k for $4,200. Original owner was kind enough to meet me at the dealer prior to title transfer to install new Lizard battery for dealer split 20/80% with $1500 out of pocket, including TCU update. Leaves me with a darn near new car for less than $6k. Still needs a 12v battery and tires, but likely the only maintenance I'll need to do for quite some time. IMHO, it's a better deal than 2014/15 model, despite heater improvements, as I get newer battery and for $2k less.

Could you explain that TCU update and only paying $1500 out of pocket for the new battery? How did that work? Was it within warranty or part of the negotiated price?
 
OP, can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it. I had to dig thru your posts to find your location, in the first post.
 
LeafWannaBe984 said:
This car would have a very light commute. No more than 30 miles roundtrip. The main issue would just be getting stuck in a traffic jam honestly. Yearly it will likely have less than 12K miles a year.

So 2015 models and up only have the lizard batteries? I would prefer to get a model that has the lizard batteries.

I usually hold on to to a car for about 12-14 years. I'm looking at used now because a New Honda is pretty expensive nowadays (would likely be over $20K). I thought about new for a Leaf, but that depreciation is very high and the used cars are very well priced.

New is around $26K for a Leaf, but 2015 used I'm finding for under $10K or bearly over that :shock:

Leafs actually do great in a traffic jam - slow speeds are very battery efficient and no "burning gas" when idling.

Don't forget about the $7,500 federal income tax rebate. If your tax liability isn't large enough to take advantage of most (ideally all) of this amount, I would not consider a new Leaf. I would expect a new 2017 S with QC to cost significantly less than $20k when factoring in the rebate.
 
LeafWannaBe984 said:
This car would have a very light commute. No more than 30 miles roundtrip. The main issue would just be getting stuck in a traffic jam honestly. Yearly it will likely have less than 12K miles a year.

So 2015 models and up only have the lizard batteries? I would prefer to get a model that has the lizard batteries.

I usually hold on to to a car for about 12-14 years. I'm looking at used now because a New Honda is pretty expensive nowadays (would likely be over $20K). I thought about new for a Leaf, but that depreciation is very high and the used cars are very well priced.

New is around $26K for a Leaf, but 2015 used I'm finding for under $10K or bearly over that :shock:

For a 30 mile roundtrip commute I would definitely get a 2015 as long as you can find one with at least 90% SOC. I disagree with people telling you to buy new. Even if you can find one for around $23K (which you should be able to in the coming months), you're still paying close to $18K after taxes. That means the car depreciates ~ %40 in two years. Why pay that depreciation if you don't need the new features?

The only thing I worry about with the leaf is that we still don't know a lot about its long term reliability (10 years plus). There are some threads that report a big problem with the heating/cooling units that are very expensive to fix, but that was for earlier models so maybe it's been resolved.

For $10K you have to figure that if the car lasts you for around 7 years it was essentially free, so I'm fine if my car (2014 with 14,000 miles for $10K) is a hunk of junk by then.
 
LeafWannaBe984 said:
Could you explain that TCU update and only paying $1500 out of pocket for the new battery? How did that work? Was it within warranty or part of the negotiated price?

No, it was not in warranty. The terminology the Nissan tech used was a "Good Faith" replacement. I've seen rumors that Nissan may have discontinued the program, but most I've seen are paying 20% original cost of battery. Turned out to be $1,300. TCU is $199 but is a $600 job apparently, or so they claim. I only paid the total of $1500, TCU installed.
 
booper said:
Don't forget about the $7,500 federal income tax rebate. If your tax liability isn't large enough to take advantage of most (ideally all) of this amount, I would not consider a new Leaf. I would expect a new 2017 S with QC to cost significantly less than $20k when factoring in the rebate.

For used cars? CA DMV posts they don't for used, but I'm curious if Federal still gives rebate? If so, I need to find out how to apply for that.
 
webb14leafs said:
The only thing I worry about with the leaf is that we still don't know a lot about its long term reliability (10 years plus). There are some threads that report a big problem with the heating/cooling units that are very expensive to fix, but that was for earlier models so maybe it's been resolved.

I've read it starts on 2013 models with heat pumps. So 2011-2012 should be OK, likely 2015 and on should be OK. Issue with 2011-12 are that the heaters are much less efficient, but it is, what it is. I paid under $6k for my leaf, and am willing to deal with it :). Since my commute is 6.5 miles one-way, I've really not got anything to worry about, but for others, heat efficiency may make a big difference for them.
 
I went used. I do not see much difference in relative price between 2013, 2014, and 2015 used Leafs with comparably average mileage. The 2016 and 2017 carry a much higher price so that did not make $ sense for another 23 miles. The sweet spot is 2015. Check the price trend graphs on https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Nissan-Leaf-d2077. The 2015 with average usage will also have a decent battery SOH and good overall remaining warranty. The difference to new I can pocket for a potential new battery. My 'new' 2015 Leaf S looks new and I'm still in that happy new convert stage so I think everything about it is perfect, haha, let's check that in 6 months.
 
haha, let's check that in 6 months.

I'm 6 months in with my 2014 and I still love it. One surprising thing to note is that the car had 87% SOH on LeafSpy when I bought it. After 6 months and a brutal South Florida Summer it has... 87% SOH. I expected it to lose that first bar, but it's still holding on tight.
 
That Texas heat can be brutal, so a 2015 would be a wise-choice. A 30-mile round trip commute should be easy even down to 8 bars of battery life remaining. I say go for it!

One additional note about traffic jams. The AC will pull about 1.5kw at full blast, which you can interpret as losing ~6 miles of range for every hour stuck in traffic in the dead of summer. So on a degraded battery at full charge (65% of 21kwh = 13.65kwh), you can be stuck in traffic for ~4hrs under scorching sun and still make your round-trip commute (7.5kwh to drive 30 miles @ 65mph). In reality, once your cabin has been cooled, the AC throttles down so you won't consume as much power. Driving slower will save more power than AC.
 
Supersleeper said:
booper said:
Don't forget about the $7,500 federal income tax rebate. If your tax liability isn't large enough to take advantage of most (ideally all) of this amount, I would not consider a new Leaf. I would expect a new 2017 S with QC to cost significantly less than $20k when factoring in the rebate.

For used cars? CA DMV posts they don't for used, but I'm curious if Federal still gives rebate? If so, I need to find out how to apply for that.

The Federal TAX CREDIT (not rebate) is only for new vehicle purchases. Used cars don't count, neither do leases (since you're technically not the owner). If you lease through NMAC, Nissan does pass the Federal tax credit on to you in the form of a $7500 contribution towards the Capitalized Cost Reduction (aka the "down payment").

It's important to note the difference between tax credit and rebate. Rebate means cash back; California's program works that way. But a tax credit means you have to wait for tax season to apply for it, and as booper mentioned you may not get the full amount back depending on your particular tax situation.

And yes the $7500 Federal tax credit is still in effect.
 
Supersleeper said:
LeafWannaBe984 said:
Could you explain that TCU update and only paying $1500 out of pocket for the new battery? How did that work? Was it within warranty or part of the negotiated price?

No, it was not in warranty. The terminology the Nissan tech used was a "Good Faith" replacement. I've seen rumors that Nissan may have discontinued the program, but most I've seen are paying 20% original cost of battery...
The usual term in the car industry is goodwill.
 
webb14leafs said:
haha, let's check that in 6 months.

I'm 6 months in with my 2014 and I still love it. One surprising thing to note is that the car had 87% SOH on LeafSpy when I bought it. After 6 months and a brutal South Florida Summer it has... 87% SOH. I expected it to lose that first bar, but it's still holding on tight.

Talk about the kiss of death. My car lost it's first bar yesterday. Apparently that brutal summer caught up with me. Still, if this translates to a capacity loss of 5-6% per year, I'll be fine for 5 years.
 
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