webb14leafs
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:09 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:What giveaway?

1.3 Trillion over 10 years. Did that paltry sum escape your attention ?

Looks like somebody's been studying zero sum equations.
Try this little experiment some time: Make a water balloon with a latex glove and squeeze one of the fingers. Then go back and think harder about things that *sound* good, like $15 minimum wage and the third highest corporate tax rate in the world.


Try this little experiment. Read a book. Find one example of when tax cuts on the wealthy increased GDP. The congressional budget office (which used to be considered a conservative leaning insititution until Fox news took over the republican party) has predicted it won't work and later shown it doesn't work time and time again.

Please report back on any references.

SageBrush
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:23 am

webb14leafs wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:
SageBrush wrote:1.3 Trillion over 10 years. Did that paltry sum escape your attention ?

Looks like somebody's been studying zero sum equations.
Try this little experiment some time: Make a water balloon with a latex glove and squeeze one of the fingers. Then go back and think harder about things that *sound* good, like $15 minimum wage and the third highest corporate tax rate in the world.


Try this little experiment. Read a book. Find one example of when tax cuts on the wealthy increased GDP. The congressional budget office (which used to be considered a conservative leaning insititution until Fox news took over the republican party) has predicted it won't work and later shown it doesn't work time and time again.

Please report back on any references.

Yep.

The last time "supply side economics" was tried in the US was during the Reagan era and it was a total failure. One might think that taxing the poor to enrich the rich would politely die, but like bell bottom jeans and therapeutic enemas, it just returns every generation to befuddle a new generation of morons who do not read history.

At its most basic, corporate tax cutting works when capital constrains growth. That has not been true for any OECD country I can think of for a long time. Well, outside of recessions anyway, like the most recent Repub disaster here in the US.
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DanCar
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:54 am

Auto industry is apposed to elimination of the tax credit.
http://www.autonews.com/article/2017110 ... tax-credit
Lobbyists here quickly huddled to figure out how to save the tax credit, which the industry views as critical to promoting commercial adoption of electric vehicle technology.
"Tax credits are an important customer benefit that can help accelerate the acceptance of electric vehicles. Because General Motors believes in an all-electric future, we will work with Congress to explore ways to maintain this incentive," GM said in a statement.

Based on past experience with congress, what is most likely is the tax credit does not get repealed, at least not so quickly. Will have a better idea once we see the senate version of the bill. I'm just a bill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFroMQlKiag
https://pjmedia.com/trending/tax-bill-trouble-senate/
No doubt, Trump's leadership skills will be fully tested before a tax reform package passes Congress.
Last edited by DanCar on Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:49 am

Sorry as scenes of people lining up to buy $1200 iPhones they can't afford on time play out while Tim Cook holds the profits offshore I'm just not buying any of it. It's only a giveaway if you assume first that all wealth is property of the state. Just because somebody else has money and I don't doesn't mean it's morally right to elect people to take it from them and give it to me.
Ironically one of the two places with higher corporate tax rates than here is Puerto Rico. How's that working out for them.
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abasile
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:24 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Looks like somebody's been studying zero sum equations.
Try this little experiment some time: Make a water balloon with a latex glove and squeeze one of the fingers. Then go back and think harder about things that *sound* good, like $15 minimum wage and the third highest corporate tax rate in the world.

My concern about sharp increases in the minimum wage is that they may make job creation more difficult, though this may be less of a concern when the unemployment rate is low (and there would tend to be wage inflation anyway). At least for the US, I'm not sure how much of a problem high corporate tax rates actually are. If companies are growing and investing their profits in R&D, expansion, and in their workers, then they shouldn't owe a great deal in taxes. That said, exceptionally high tax rates will tend to discourage free enterprise; people and companies need to feel that success will be rewarded.

In general, putting more money in the pockets of low and middle income earners has the greatest stimulatory effect on the economy because those individuals are most likely to spend the money and thus circulate it back into the economy. Yes, it's true that high income earners generally pay a lot more in taxes, but their success depends on a functioning economy. Payroll taxes are quite regressive, so I think it would make sense to reduce the payroll tax rate and simultaneously increase or eliminate the income cap.

While I think the EV tax credit needs to remain in place for now, I do like the idea of eliminating a number of deductions while increasing the standard deduction. This should tend to make federal taxes simpler and more fair. Why should taxpayers be forced to subsidize mortgages on expensive homes, for example?
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webb14leafs
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:32 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote: Just because somebody else has money and I don't doesn't mean it's morally right to elect people to take it from them and give it to me.


Your understanding of taxation in a civilized society is pretty elementary.

WetEV
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:43 pm

LTLFTcomposite wrote:It's only a giveaway if you assume first that all wealth is property of the state.


Or if free riders are not allowed, especially in first class.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:59 pm

SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:I'll wait as long as safely possible, but try to keep in mind that the EV tax credit is low hanging fruit for chopping. There will be only modest opposition, and even that will only serve to make it more enticing, as it will come from the Liberals the Republicans want to hurt most. Compared with things like mortgage interest deductions and state tax deductions, the EV credit is a relative no-brainer to cut, and fairly politically safe as well.

True, but the giveaway to the corporate world is the substance of the proposed tax law. If that fails, the entire bill will fail. So do yourself a favor and stop trying to convince anybody whether the EV tax credit should stay, and focus your efforts on the unfunded, massive corporate giveaway at everybody's expense.


I don't know if you are mistaken about what I do and don't want, but this is an EV forum and I'm talking about the part of the tax bill that most directly affects EV drivers. I'm well aware of the corporate giveaways, and am opposed to them. I also consider myself a Socialist, and have since I saw Michael Harrington give a lecture at Cornell in the Seventies. This is mynissanleaf.com, however, not thenation.com.
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The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

SageBrush
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:23 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:I'll wait as long as safely possible, but try to keep in mind that the EV tax credit is low hanging fruit for chopping. There will be only modest opposition, and even that will only serve to make it more enticing, as it will come from the Liberals the Republicans want to hurt most. Compared with things like mortgage interest deductions and state tax deductions, the EV credit is a relative no-brainer to cut, and fairly politically safe as well.

True, but the giveaway to the corporate world is the substance of the proposed tax law. If that fails, the entire bill will fail. So do yourself a favor and stop trying to convince anybody whether the EV tax credit should stay, and focus your efforts on the unfunded, massive corporate giveaway at everybody's expense.


I don't know if you are mistaken about what I do and don't want, but this is an EV forum and I'm talking about the part of the tax bill that most directly affects EV drivers. I'm well aware of the corporate giveaways, and am opposed to them. I also consider myself a Socialist, and have since I saw Michael Harrington give a lecture at Cornell in the Seventies. This is mynissanleaf.com, however, not thenation.com.

You are succumbing to the Repub playbook by agonizing over a gnat and ignoring the elephant in the room. Save the EV credit by getting people to realize that the bill is against their interests.

99% of the populace could not care less about the EV credit, but they should consider that they are being asked to fund a massive corporate giveaway.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: The Early Demise of the $7500 Credit is BAD News

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:34 pm

If you can't understand why I'm "agonizing" over the EV tax credit on an EV forum, when I'm looking to lease an EV, then I guess you aren't nearly as clever as I thought. I don't need lectures on political activism after 40 years of being involved in it. You have no idea what I have or haven't done to oppose the American Right, and I don't plan on listing it here, ON A NISSAN LEAF FORUM.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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