alozzy
Posts: 748
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:13 pm

Given your financial situation, maintain the status quo for now, then purchase a used Bolt or 2018 Leaf in 2 or 3 years from now once those cars have depreciated enough to be affordable.

Payments of $250 per month on a 5 year loan would be about $13.5K principal, depending on interest rate. So, if your used Leaf is still worth $6K at that time, you'd have almost $20K. Don't know if that would be enough for a used Bolt or 2018 Leaf...

If you could save for a down payment over the next few years, that would help.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7684
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:17 pm

Looks like a used 2015-2016 Volt goes for $15,000 and up. So with a $7,000-$9,000 or so trade in, I'd owe around $7,000, which is within my budget. Just a couple questions. How do those do in the cold? I mean, waking up to freezing temps 8 or 9 months out of the year? Does the ICE have to run for heat?

Also what kind of fuel mileage should be expected on the long trips? Do those have a 6kW or 3kW charger? I love my Leaf's 6kW charger and the ability to put on 25 miles for each hour I'm parked. Not that a 3kW charger would ruin my day with a gasoline back up. It just means I'll be using more gasoline some days.

I just wonder if a $7,000 +40mpg or +50mpg highway car plus my 75 e-mile Leaf would be better than a 37mpg highway/38 e-mile Volt by itself especially if the gasoline engine ends up kicking on during my daily driving for heating or something else.


I'm not a Volt expert, but I think I can answer a lot of this. The Volt would have a 3.3kw charger. You can set the car to run the engine only if it drops to...15F, IIRC? It does have a 5kw resistance heater, and I believe you can preheat it. On trips of less than 100 miles the Volt would get excellent overall fuel economy. On trips longer than that it would drop off because of that 37MPG on gas only. If you're ok with using gas for longer trips, the Volt make a good EV for 40 miles. How long are your typical local trips, again?
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

specialgreen
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2017
Location: Minnesota

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 1:23 pm

I'd second the suggestion of trading cars with a friend or relative when you want to leave town. Most of my friends love to drive through Leaf. I gave my dad a test drive, and he wouldn't turn around to go home.

If you want a non-hybrid, non diesel high highway mpg, I'd suggest finding a model yeat which is cheap enough to fit your budget, then search on Best Hwy MPG for that year (and ignore the diesel and hybrids in the list). For example, 2013 Cruze(42), Versa(40), Sentra(40), 323(40). It may pay to buy a gas car old enough that you can avoid collision insurance.

silverone
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:29 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jan 2017
Location: Eastern OH

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:15 pm

jjeff wrote:Living in a cold climate and not wanting the ICE to kick in is what drove me to a Leaf, AFAIK on a Volt you'd have to trick it to not have the ICE kick in and even then you'd have no heat! Living in a cold climate I didn't want a car that would be EV only 5-7 month/year so I got the Leaf.
If we were starting from scratch in this market I'd probably have gotten a new Prime, ability to heat on battery only, heat pump heater and unlimited great MPG on gas. Of course, you probably couldn't get the payments you wanted on a new Prime, but it's a thought. The Volt sounds nice in theory but in my area, I didn't think it made as much sense.


It's true that you'd need to trick the Volt into keeping the ICE off in temperatures under 15F. There is a simple module being distributed for that purpose that puts a resistor in the Outside Temperature detection circuit. If you did that, you could still be pure EV for limited ranges - say 25 miles or so with electric Heat for a 2015 or older at those temperatures. At one point I exceeded 10,000 straight EV miles because of the switch in my Volt.

With your weekly 200 mile trip, it wouldn't matter whether the ICE ran early or not, you'd still use up the 10 kWh usable capacity of the battery fairly quickly.

Physical space (specifically headroom) and price are the reasons I continue to drive the used Leaf I purchased over the Volt, which has transitioned to my son. I'm still able to use the Volt for longer trips if needed. In your position, you should still consider an older Volt - from 2013 to 2015.
2013 SL with Premium package - build date 5/13. 12 bar car with 47,000 miles and counting... Trying to nurse 12 bars to 60,000 miles and beyond if possible!

2014 Volt - 46,000+ miles

SageBrush
Posts: 1594
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:02 pm

A Prius Prime is a fair idea since Colorado has a $5,000 refundable tax credit. On top of the $4,250 Federal tax credit (presuming enough tax liability,) the Prime can be inexpensive, under $10k if the LEAF really sells as OP hopes.

I bought mine for $25,500 before local taxes,
Paid $900 to ship it to Colorado from NY
Then paid $1500 TTL
Tax credits totaled $9,250

Image
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

jjeff
Posts: 1546
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 4:10 pm

silverone wrote:
jjeff wrote:Living in a cold climate and not wanting the ICE to kick in is what drove me to a Leaf, AFAIK on a Volt you'd have to trick it to not have the ICE kick in and even then you'd have no heat! Living in a cold climate I didn't want a car that would be EV only 5-7 month/year so I got the Leaf.
If we were starting from scratch in this market I'd probably have gotten a new Prime, ability to heat on battery only, heat pump heater and unlimited great MPG on gas. Of course, you probably couldn't get the payments you wanted on a new Prime, but it's a thought. The Volt sounds nice in theory but in my area, I didn't think it made as much sense.


It's true that you'd need to trick the Volt into keeping the ICE off in temperatures under 15F. There is a simple module being distributed for that purpose that puts a resistor in the Outside Temperature detection circuit. If you did that, you could still be pure EV for limited ranges - say 25 miles or so with electric Heat for a 2015 or older at those temperatures. At one point I exceeded 10,000 straight EV miles because of the switch in my Volt.

With your weekly 200 mile trip, it wouldn't matter whether the ICE ran early or not, you'd still use up the 10 kWh usable capacity of the battery fairly quickly.

Physical space (specifically headroom) and price are the reasons I continue to drive the used Leaf I purchased over the Volt, which has transitioned to my son. I'm still able to use the Volt for longer trips if needed. In your position, you should still consider an older Volt - from 2013 to 2015.

Thanks for clarifying, when I was looking at a Volt(before getting my Leaf) I don't think it was so cut and dried on how to do the 15F trick.
Like you, besides the 15F issue I also couldn't stand the cockpit design of the Volt and felt VERY cramped! headroom, hip room, leg room, etc. I also disliked the huge shifter(or at least huge compared to our Prius or the little mouse on the Leaf, just didn't care for the design(inside) of the Volt, I really liked the exterior, in fact more than my rather ugly(IMO) Leaf.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
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'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
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User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 600
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:04 pm

Thanks for the posts, answers, idea and constructive criticism.

GerryAZ wrote:Keep the LEAF--...


alozzy wrote:<span>Given your financial situation, maintain the status quo for now, then purchase a used<a class="interlinkr" href="http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum" target="_blank"> Bolt <span class="tip">Visit the Chevy Bolt EV</span></a>or 2018 Leaf in 2 or 3 years from now once those cars have depreciated enough to be affordable.</span>
...
If you could save for a down payment over the next few years, that would help.


Patience is a virtue. I think up follow your advice and save with the Leaf and Golf until I find something that shouts "Buy me!" in neon signs from heaven. Leaf 2 (especially the 60kWh) Bolt and Tesla 3 could all work if the price is right.

specialgreen wrote:I'd second the suggestion of trading cars with a friend or relative when you want to leave town...

If you want a non-hybrid, non diesel high highway mpg...

I'm afraid that trading cars on a weekly basis would get old really quick. I have tried it a few times. It is a very good idea on paper. But then what if someone wrecks one of the cars? Or what it both need to go far the same day in opposite directions? Maybe if the were a way to assume partial ownership on paper. It's just too complicated and risky.

And it's not that I'm against hybrids or diesels. I just don't want to pay more in order to "save money," which wouldn't actually be saving money especially if the car is less comfortable for more money.

silverone wrote:It's true that you'd need to trick the Volt into keeping the ICE off in temperatures under 15F.


SageBrush wrote:A Prius Prime is a fair idea since Colorado has a $5,000 refundable tax credit. On top of the $4,250 Federal tax credit (presuming enough tax liability,) the Prime can be inexpensive, under $10k if the LEAF really sells as OP hopes.

So I'm putting the Volt and the Prius Prime on my radar. Any idea what a 2018 Leaf would work out to?

LeftieBiker wrote:How long are your typical local trips, again?</span>

It averages 30 miles but can vary greatly. Basically my job involves services within a 35 mile radius. One day I do 10 miles and another 100. The Leaf seems to work fine although I do at times need to charge mid day at or near a destination. Hence my preference for the faster charger.
2013 SL 50,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

User avatar
IssacZachary
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Leaf Number: 420789
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:35 pm

One car that just caught my attention is the Honda Civic GX CNG car as an addition to my Leaf. It might not get stellar fuel mileage nor have a stellar range, but CNG is so cheap!
2013 SL 50,000 miles.
12 bars until 44,300 miles on June 2, 2017. :D
11 bars current. :)
The Nissan Leaf is the fourth best long distance car for highway driving. >>Best Long Distance Cars<<

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7384
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:42 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:You could sell the Leaf and VW and get a used 2015-2016 Volt.

I haven't read the entire OP nor most of the replies, but FWIW, the '16 Volt has a lousy reliability rating from Consumer Reports. Seems like all of gen 2 Volt isn't doing so well in this dept, which is too bad given all the welcome improvements in the gen 2.

'15 Volt (last year of gen 1) has a very good reliability rating.
IssacZachary wrote:One car that just caught my attention is the Honda Civic GX CNG car as an addition to my Leaf. It might not get stellar fuel mileage nor have a stellar range, but CNG is so cheap!

They are not very easy to find since their sales (and production?) numbers were so low.

Also, from viewtopic.php?p=179304#p179304:
Devin wrote:-Service and maintenance are costly and must be done by specific CNG certified Honda dealers. Regular car stuff can be done at any dealer or by yourself (my girlfriend does the oil changes and stuff) but the CNG specific stuff must go to Honda, and that can be every other service. For us that means a 50 mile drive to Palmdale to the competent and reasonably priced Robertson Palmdale Honda. Also, the CNG cylinder is only certified for 15 years so after 15 years by law it MUST be replaced.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
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LeftieBiker
Posts: 7684
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:47 pm

FWIW, the '16 Volt has a lousy reliability rating from Consumer Reports.



Good catch. I had remembered the reliability issues starting with 2017, and had forgotten the model refresh happened in 2016. So yes, make that a 2014 or 2015 Volt.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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