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IssacZachary
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:00 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Keep in mind though that no non plug-in Prius is going to give you 55-60MPG with your hills, so factor that in.

Yep. I noticed that! Thanks Leftie! All the more reason to try to get a Prime.

Thanks again to all!
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
1972 VW Beetle SOLD :cry:
1984 VW Golf diesel CURRENT :x
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GRA
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:00 pm

IssacZachary wrote:
GRA wrote:
IssacZachary wrote:I still keep throwing around the idea of a new Prime though. I still see some for around $25,000, which with the tax credits could put it at $15,000. If I can sell the Beetle for around $7,000 too I would just about break even in the end!

If you can swing that I think it would be an excellent way to go. An Ionic PHEV lists even less, and looks more normal. Worth comparing, and you might want to look at the Niro PHEV as well, which should be priced in the same range as the Prime.

Ya but I've never really been into crossovers. I like how the regular Prius and the Prime are both aerodynamic in shape. I'm the kind of guy who would want an Aptera. While most people brag about how fast their car can go or how high off the ground it sits, I brag about how I get 60 mpg in my 35 year old car. When the Leaf worked for me I would brag about how it only cost me $15 per month to "fuel". And even though a used Toyota Yaris or a Honda Fit might calculate out cheaper in total operating costs than a Prius, I would feel bad getting only 45mpg.

That still leaves you with the Prime and Ioniq, and the Ioniq is rated slightly worse than the Prime by the EPA, but gives you the fifth seat (if you care) and a bit more luggage space, plus a 6-speed automatic instead of a CVT. I expect either would work well for you.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:27 pm

Unless they changed it with the Prime, the Prius uses a "power split device" rather than a CVT.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

2k1Toaster
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Jun 28, 2018 12:24 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Unless they changed it with the Prime, the Prius uses a "power split device" rather than a CVT.


All Toyota / Lexus hybrids including the Prius have a CVT in function that they call HSD, Hybrid Synergy Drive. The magic device inside is just a series of static gears in a planetary gear arrangement, the "power split device". Large ring gear on the outside tied to MG2, small standard gear on the inside tied to MG1, and the 4 middle sun gears tied to the engine. All are directly coupled. Never can they be swapped in or out, ratios changed, anything. They are truly always static in their gearing. The beauty is that you can change the speed of the outer ring gear (vehicle speed) with a near infinite combination of MG2, MG1, and the ICE and even counter rotate MG1 at any time to charge back up the pack independently of speed! It's a pretty incredible piece of engineering. The only conceivable downside is that the HSD requires a functional hybrid system to move. In Honda's mild IMA systems if the hybrid aspect is dead or completely removed from the equation the car can still hobble on down the road. In the Prius, or any HSD vehicle, if the hybrid system is non functional MG2 can't move the vehicle and MG1 can't even start the ICE anyways.
2013 Nissan Leaf SV with every option
2013 Prius C Package 4
2012 Lexus RX450h
2006 Prius Gen II, pIV
2005 Honda Civic Hybrid
2001 Honda Civic EX
1997 Honda Prelude SH
1981 DeLorean DMC12
and more...

LeftieBiker
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:25 am

It isn't a "CVT in function" because it doesn't function like a CVT. The driving experience is somewhat similar, just as a CVT with simulated shift points is somewhat like driving a planetary gear automatic.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:58 am

The Prius is CVT "like" in the sense of not having discrete gears but the implementation is electric rather than mechanical. Mechanical tends to have reliability problems and the driving experience is ... not to most people's liking. Toyota's HSD on the other hand is awesome.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
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2k1Toaster
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:11 am

LeftieBiker wrote:It isn't a "CVT in function" because it doesn't function like a CVT. The driving experience is somewhat similar, just as a CVT with simulated shift points is somewhat like driving a planetary gear automatic.


It's continuously variable... Sounds like in function to me. But the implementation is unique.

Driving a CVT vehicle that uses the standard belt and cone setup isn't too bad but the reliability is crazy low and the time lag to move that belt around the cone is noticeable compared to the Prius.

Hopefully the OP gets a Prime or something that works for him. As with every emerging tech trend like BEVs/PHEVs there are some really cool vehicles on the horizon. And there always will be. If you wait a year to get that cool car, the next cool car will be announced and you wait another year, etc.
2013 Nissan Leaf SV with every option
2013 Prius C Package 4
2012 Lexus RX450h
2006 Prius Gen II, pIV
2005 Honda Civic Hybrid
2001 Honda Civic EX
1997 Honda Prelude SH
1981 DeLorean DMC12
and more...

User avatar
IssacZachary
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:06 pm

GRA wrote:That still leaves you with the Prime and Ioniq, and the Ioniq is rated slightly worse than the Prime by the EPA, but gives you the fifth seat (if you care) and a bit more luggage space, plus a 6-speed automatic instead of a CVT. I expect either would work well for you.

The Ioniq is tempting. Even the 124 mile range BEV Ioniq is tempting. I don't know much about them, but I can't say I know much about the Prius either. Darn it! I just remembered I was at the library and was going to take home the 2018 April edition of Consumer Reports, which is all about cars. Maybe I'll go back and get it right now. All I remember is that they highly recommend Toyota for reliability, something that's very important to me.

LeftieBiker wrote:Unless they changed it with the Prime, the Prius uses a "power split device" rather than a CVT.

Kind of like a three-way CVT. It takes power and energy and transfers them between the engine, battery and wheels.

Reminds me of the hydraulic CVT. It uses a couple or a few variable hydraulic pump/motors, one at the engine and one or more at the wheels. If you add a hydraulic accumulator in the middle then you'd have something similar to the Toyota setup, only hydraulic instead of electric. I've always wanted to help my brother put a hydraulic hybrid system on his 3/4 ton Chevy Scottsdale. They say they can improve city fuel mileage by 40%.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
1972 VW Beetle SOLD :cry:
1984 VW Golf diesel CURRENT :x
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CONTEMPLATING :shock:

SageBrush
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:48 pm

IssacZachary wrote:Kind of like a three-way CVT. It takes power and energy and transfers them between the engine, battery and wheels..

I think the HSD is better described as a torque splitter between the wheels, ICE and two m/g units using an epicyclic ("planetary") gear set. I'm not positive of the engineering, but I think each m/g unit can vary output voltage in generator mode and thereby simulate continuous, instant, wide ranging gear ratios by controlling the speed and direction of each part of the gear set.
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
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Re: I have a Leaf, so now what?

Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:51 pm

All I remember is that they highly recommend Toyota for reliability, something that's very important to me.


Not all of Toyota's cars are reliable. The Camry in particular has suffered some reliability issues since the turn of the century, but the Prius has benefited from its own little sub-sub-division within Toyota, with higher quality standards.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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