GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:31 am

Joe6pack wrote:Sounds like there is enough confirmation bias to go around for everyone.


:lol:

Yes, there is some of that in any major purchase decision. But there is also an array of opinions based on individual needs.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12329
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:23 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:As far as range goes; I drive a lot so one would think that range is hyper important especially in a state where less than 10 % of the VW settlement will be for public charging but its not.


Dave, I respect your opinion and appreciate how vocal you are about EVs. I'm not sure you are listening to others' opinions.

Your region is much better better covered than mine. Also, you're "drive a lot" is wildly different from my "drive a lot". I have been averaging around 2000 miles / month. I consider that driving a lot. My daily M-F driving, however, is typically less than 30 miles. My round-trip commute is 4.5 miles, and I rarely an farther than 10 miles from my home during the week.

My high mileage is because I am a bit of a "weekend warrior". I will regularly drive 500+ miles on a weekend. On average, twice a month. This is where the range of the Bolt makes all the difference over the 2018 Leaf.

I do recognize that my driving patterns are not the norm. Where I take exception is those vocal people, such as yourself, who discount or simply ignore very real use cases in favor of your own driving pattern.

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Granted, this blog will be my POV and its one that must select the options based on the greatest ROI and in the new car world that is pretty much an oxymoron.


I disagree. ROI has monetary implications, but we don't have to limit ourselves to that. Since I upgraded my Leaf to a Bolt, I have been enjoying every minute of EV driving much more. I also have had many more minutes of EV driving (due to taking the car on longer trips). That joy and freedom is absolutely a return on my investment.


ROI is all about quantifying dollars and sense (that is spelled correctly) and how we value the sense is completely a personal thing. So you really can't disagree with my calculation of ROI because its simply not possible to "be like Dave."

I recycle militantly... I do it because. Unlike the municipality across the street, I don't have to fear being penalized for not recycling. I do have to pay for recycling (its not optional for any trash pickup that I know of here) but unlike most and I mean most, I do recycle just about all I can.

No one I know of, recycles all the time. They do it when its convenient or enough to not get fined. So what does this have to do with cars?

I recycle simply because its how I do life in general. Its either all the way or no way. Cars have little if any ROI. Did you hear about the S85D for sale? 30,000 miles on a 4 year old car and they are asking like $35,000. How is that for an ROI?

But we can't look at this is bought it for this, sold it for that. so we lost XX. Because the car replaces other expenses in time, convenience, work availability, even vacation availability. So it all matters. Its a trade off. You have a car so you are home for 3 extra hours a day over the bus option.

So the reality is what do you want to pay for the extra 90 miles of range you will use a few days a week? That question is different for every one. I spend a LOT of time this past Summer charging publicly including a 4 month stretch averaging more than 2 fast charges PER DAY. So it becomes a question of wasting the time or doing something while the car is charging. In reality it takes anywhere from 4 to 12 mins of nearly undivided attention to get gas, but only about 40 seconds to charge the car.

You have minimal charging options, well I feel the same way. Its not barren but its very very inadequate. Realize I am competing with 5,000 other EVs in the region and that number is growing fast.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 1690
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:29 pm

Thanks, Dave. I'm pretty sure you didn't read my comment. If you did, it didn't sink in.

One more time, then I'm done. The "return" on investment does not have to be limited to financial returns. Did the owner of that Model S enjoy the heck out of it? If so, is that joy worth the depreciation cost? Because to me, that's part of ROI.

You then go on to say that you QC up to 4 times a day, yet your charging infrastructure is as barren as mine? There aren't any QCs around which I could even use in a Leaf! It's not a matter of spending time while charging the car - it's a matter of not being able to use the car at all!

I guess I'm not typing this because I expect Dave to suddenly hear me. Its more for other readers who are a little more open minded.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7385
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:30 pm

Bloggers tend to have one way attention attributes.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

User avatar
DuncanCunningham
Forum Supporter
Posts: 460
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:02 am
Delivery Date: 15 Apr 2015
Location: Bountiful, UT

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:09 pm

darn, popcorn ran out.. I'll be back with more tomorrow.
Statler: Wake up you old fool. You slept through the show.
Waldorf: Who's a fool? You watched it.

2015 Leaf S (leased until May 2018, Bought out in Jan 2017)
2012 Leaf SL (purchased May 2015)

NeilBlanchard
Posts: 607
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:02 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 306278

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:35 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:test drove both and blogged about both. they are both great options with their own strong points but the reality is the ONLY point in the Bolt's favor is range and its not all that huge. At first glance the question is "how much more am I willing to pay for the extra 80-90 miles of range?"

But after the drive, its more like "How much am I willing to do without?"

FYI; if you want more regen, the LEAF has it since "one pedal driving" is standard across all packages and its just like the Bolt's low gear in that it provides a much higher level of regen and unlike the Bolt double shift, the LEAF now has a single button to push to get there


I do not fit comfortably in the new Leaf, and my son (who is taller than I am) would literally not fit.

We fit very comfortably in our Bolt EV.

GRA
Posts: 7575
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:51 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
but the reality is the ONLY point in the Bolt's favor is range


And horsepower. Two things...

...ok, range, horsepower and crisp handling. THREE things the Bolt has going for it. (With apologies to Monty Python.)

Range, horsepower, crisp handling and ruthless efficiency . . . I'll come in again.

(Cardinal Fang! Poke them with the soft cushions!)
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7385
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:02 pm

You've just self-identified as a Geezer. Ah well, we may be giving up the world to toddlers who begin sentences with "So..." but we're still everywhere. Or, to put it another way:

"I'm NOT dead!"
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

jim0266
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:14 am
Delivery Date: 17 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 330446
Location: Akron, Oh

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:32 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:I do not fit comfortably in the new Leaf, and my son (who is taller than I am) would literally not fit.

We fit very comfortably in our Bolt EV.


Thanks to the OP For his review.

I am about 6 foot one. In the Bolt With the driver seat all the way back It was almost too far. I've never had that "Problem" in the car before. However, I fall into the camp That Chevy Bungled On the Bolt seats. I drove both Bolt Models And found The premier seat Acceptable. The LT seat gave me pains in my thighs after only 20 minutes. I read a post where some guy in California sat in multiple versions of both trim levels And discovered it was random if the seats were comfortable. YMMV So try living with the car with the car Before buying.

Something about the Bolt interior simply felt off. Perhaps because it felt like a $20,000 car interior Instead of a $40,000 car interior

But if you need Range The bolt is really the only car today.

I would Consider Leasing a 2018 Nissan leaf But I would never buy A new EV That does not have a thermally managed battery. I only paid $9,800 For my 2014 SV Leaf with only 8,700 miles So I cannot complain about battery degradation. Now at almost 16,000 miles I'm still at 95% average state of health But it has taken work to keep my numbers up.

I have my sights set On a longer-range 2020 Leaf with TMS Or a Tesla M3 if That car actually pans out.

lkkms2
Gold Member
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:10 am
Delivery Date: 30 Dec 2016
Leaf Number: 302025
Location: San Diego/National City, CA

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:37 am

NeilBlanchard wrote:
I do not fit comfortably in the new Leaf, and my son (who is taller than I am) would literally not fit.

We fit very comfortably in our Bolt EV.


I understand you drove a 15 Leaf S before. Does this comment mean the new Leaf is smaller or harder to get in and out of? Or that you were never really that comfortable in the 15 Leaf.

I sat in a Bolt once when they first came out and understand for some the extra height makes a big difference, but I’d have to sit in one again to focus on the difference.
2011 Leaf SL purchased 6-22-2011, sold 1-18-2017 with new battery.
2017 Leaf SV with Premium Package purchased 12-30-2016

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”