jjeff
Posts: 1486
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:04 am

Both the Volt and Bolt seem to be built for thin and tall people(of course you could also be short) but not stocky.
The Leaf seems to fit heavier people(and probably thin too) and also moderately tall(but also short) people.
As we live in N. America where very few are "thin" IMO the Chevy products are an epic fail, designed to not sell well in their country of origin :?
There's a reason SUVs sell so well in N. America, and its not because they are designed for thin people :idea: Why a mfg. would want to instantly alienate 60% of the population is, well shortsighted IMO.
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
GE Durastation 30a

GRA
Posts: 7575
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:18 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:You've just self-identified as a Geezer.

"I shall deny that to the last breath in my body." (superintendent nods) "Oh. Sorry, yes."
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7385
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:58 pm

I had to look that one up. I guess I've forgotten enough to start watching them again.

Tomorrow I drive a Kia Soul EV. With the great lease deals on offer for the 2017s, that might wind up being the EV for those who don't like the Bolt and can't wait for the Leaf. (Thanks, Republicans!)
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Evoforce
Posts: 654
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:08 am

OK, my son just traded his Leaf in for a Bolt. He really loved his leaf but... no TMS. We don't know for sure when Nissan will put TMS in their Leafs. His Leaf was going to be barely out of warranty at 8 bars so it is gone...

The last that I knew, Soul EV batteries were beginning to fail/rapidly degrade on vehicles that had only air blowing over them as TMS. Has that design recently been upgraded to liquid for Soul?

Anyway... his new Bolt is very nice! It has more headroom and more importantly, range and much longer lasting batteries. Until Nissan can make their batteries last a lot longer to match their best competition, and better their range, only the uninformed will continue to buy their product. I make that statement wishing that it wasn't the case. Nissan has been caught flat footed and resting on their laurels.

Yes the car (Bolt) is a little smaller than a Leaf but not by much. Yes, the Bolt seats are slightly narrower and slightly less comfortable, but not by much. Three people can fit in the rear seat of the Bolt but a little less comfortably, but not by much. There is a little less cargo area without the rear seats down, but not by much.

So in my opinion, battery range and battery durability of the Bolt, trump the Leaf, that has some slightly better other things.

Leaf 2018, not worth buying because of its shortcomings.
Leaf 2019, I sure hope addresses its shortcomings!
Bolt 2018, is the same as 2017 so none of its modest shortcomings are changed in the near future but possibly 2019?
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7385
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:40 pm

The last that I knew, Soul EV batteries were beginning to fail/rapidly degrade on vehicles that had only air blowing over them as TMS.


Balls. I'm going to drive a Soul EV today, as a fallback option if the EV tax credit is killed. Do you mean the batteries are failing in Hot climates like the Leaf's are doing, or degrading in general???
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

GRA
Posts: 7575
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:15 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
The last that I knew, Soul EV batteries were beginning to fail/rapidly degrade on vehicles that had only air blowing over them as TMS.


Balls. I'm going to drive a Soul EV today, as a fallback option if the EV tax credit is killed. Do you mean the batteries are failing in Hot climates like the Leaf's are doing, or degrading in general???

AVTL Test results, 2015 Souls:

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/batterySoul1908.pdf

https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/fsev/batterySoul1918.pdf

https://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/batterySoul1919.pdf

https://avt.inl.gov/pdf/fsev/batterySoul1919.pdf

For a discussion types of TMs used by current PEVs, see https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/acc/mtr/appendix_c.pdf page 27 and especially page 28:
Table 3 - Battery Thermal Management Systems of Available MY16 and
Available/Announced MY17 Models.
The LEAF is the only PEV employing passive cooling. The Soul uses cooled air from the cabin, and Phoenix conditions are too much for it. Nor is liquid cooling a panacea, as it depends on the cooling system temp setpoints. The Focus has much higher setpoints for cooling to kick in than the GM models do, and the battery suffers accordingly.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7385
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:08 pm

I'll look at the links later. (I just got back from driving a Soul EV+ and I'm tired. I'll write a review later) I think that if the cooled cabin air always flows over the pack I'll be fine, as I use the A/C 90% of the time in warm weather, and 100% of the time in hot. I also keep the cabin fairly warm in Winter, and that may help Winter range, especially on longer trips.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

User avatar
paulgipe
Gold Member
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:23 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 311200
Location: Bakersfield, CA 93305
Contact: Website

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:23 pm

Evoforce, I reached the same conclusion. We just completed our first road trip in the Bolt. 130 Mi rt, 6000 ft of gain. California freeway speed. Arrived home with 47.%. 4 mi/kWh. It worked.

Leftiebiker, I just spent an hour each way in the Bolt seats. I am in no pain, no discomfort. Yes the seats are lousy but tolerable.

As my wife said too bad we couldn't put the battery in the Leaf. Alas that's not what happened.

Paul
Bakersfield, California
2017 Bolt LT with DCFC, leased 11/09/17
2015 Nissan S with QC, leased, returned 11/10/17
2013 Chevy Volt Premium, bought used 10/3/16
L2; ClipperCreek HCS-40; EVSEUpgrade; Jesla; JDapter Stub
http://www.wind-works.org

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7385
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:26 pm

I think I can fix the Bolts' seats well enough to not hate them. The bottoms need more padding and a lot of cars had a too-long bolt installed that pushes into the cushion and into the driver's left thigh - that needs to be replaced or shortened. The road noise, on the other hand...
Last edited by LeftieBiker on Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

LKK
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:27 am

Re: My Experience: 2018 Leaf vs 2017 Bolt

Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:35 am

I did a test drive in a Bolt and despite all its range and performance i came away strangely unimpressed. The interior of the Leaf is in my opinion car more attractive and upscale, and its quieter and smoother riding. While I was excited about the Bolt I ended up after the test drive to give it a pass.

I think GM may be listening to the criticism, they say they will be introducing 20 vehicles in the coming months. So perhaps they will give us a slightly larger vehicle that is more comfortable but still retaining most of the Bolt's range and performance.

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