specialgreen
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battery heater and days subzero parking

Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:27 am

I have a question for cold weather folks: how fast does the battery heater (cold weather package) deplete your traction battery when parked outside at subzero temps, unplugged (e.g. airport parking lot)?

This video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Brn5FiLFRIg
...mentions battery depleting from 8 bars to 4 bars over 2-3 weeks parked at -18C/0F. But the battery warmer doesn’t even kick-in until below 0F, so maybe that’s not a good test.

I parked in the driveway at 95% dash SOC at Friday noon (probably 23.75 kw-hrs capacity). Saturday noon, the dash read 92%, after 24 hours parked at -10F (hi/low avg). But LeafSpy said 67% SOC and 18.8kw-hrs capacity (very different). If I trust the dash, it only lost 3% charge (maybe 0.75 kw-hrs). If I trust LeafSpy, it lost maybe 4.95 kw-hrs (about 20% of charge). The maximum possible loss should be 300 watts for 24 hours, or 7.2kw-hrs.

I noticed that the warranty excludes damage caused by “Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C)
for over seven days“, which is a bit unclear: is that storing unplugged, or also plugged-in? And if unplugged, does that imply that a 100% charge should keep it from freezing for up-to 7 days at temps above -13F?
Last edited by specialgreen on Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:35 am, edited 13 times in total.

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Stanton
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:28 am

While those are extreme temps, you now know one of the reasons why Nissan decided not to have a TMS for the Leaf; imagine having that sort of power drain in extreme heat as well. In "normal" temps, I usually see no range loss at all when sitting at the airport for even a week at a time.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:31 pm

But the battery warmer doesn’t even kick-in until below 0F, so maybe that’s not a good test.


Not true. Your pack temp was high enough that yours didn't start, but a car sitting around in low single digit temps will start the battery heater when the pack gets cold enough. Mine has been running quite a bit, despite only a few hours a night of only slightly subzero temps. I can't give you exact figures, but the warmer can use something like 15% charge a day, maybe more. IIRC it will shut off at 30% charge, and the car will "hibernate" after that.
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specialgreen
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:47 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
But the battery warmer doesn’t even kick-in until below 0F


Not true.


My 2017 manual claims this:
The Li-ion battery warmer automatically turns on when the Li-ion battery temperature is approximately -1°F (-17°C) or colder. The Li-ion battery warmer automatically turns off when the Li-ion battery temperture is approximately 14°F (-10°C) or higher.


The manual could be incomplete or wrong, of course. But also, if battery temp is mostly in single digits, but dips to -1F, then I could imagine that it may take hours to raise it to 14F. That could explain the battery drain you are seeing.

BrockWI
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:24 pm

I would think our 13 kicks on much higher than -1F. I believe it is about 5F, above that and I don't see any drain sitting, below that I start to noticed a drop. Right now it's -7F (-22F wind chill) and I pretty much see once the heaters turn on they stay on becasue they cant warm it up to 14F if it is sitting outside. I would say when they come on it uses about 3% an hour to keep warm. The part I don't know if is they just stay on until they hit 30% or until they are warm enough. Luckily most of the time I can have the Leaf in the insulated attached garage, which is just about freezing 32F right now, but way better than outside.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:28 pm

They may have reprogrammed it for the 2016+ packs, which have more thermal mass. I agree that the older Leafs start their heaters at about +5F.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:57 am

Mine sat in garage with temps from low 60's to mid 80's for 23 days and lost 8 GIDs or about one GID per 3 days.
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Rxleaf
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:23 am

Nissan's owners manual says not to leave the battery at low or zero charge for more than 14 days. That's on page EV-24 of the 2014 owners manual.

Leaf Pro has shown 377 watts being used parked in the driveway the last few days. The temps have gone to the low single digits (F) and the battery temps have been around 34F degrees. Might be the battery heater or Leaf spy pro or my OBDII have a glitch, or it might be that when the car's external temperature reading is below 7 F the battery heater goes on.

I don't know which it is.

Hyper-miling (sp??) works well in this car.

I can squeeze out 3.0 miles/kw at 6F (outside temp) with the heat set at 60F and the seats and steering-wheel heated. I just did that this morning on a 13-mile drive.

It's not easy to get a 3.0 when it's this cold, but I try to use hyper-miling (sp??) tricks since my Civic Hybrid in 2002.

specialgreen
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:06 am

Rxleaf wrote:Nissan's owners manual says not to leave the battery at low or zero charge for more than 14 days. That's on page EV-24 of the 2014 owners manual.


The 2017 manual says that, but also not to “store” the car below -13F/-25C for more than 7 days. By “store,” it’s unclear if Nissan means “stored unplugged,” or if they mean “whether plugged or unplugged” (because the 300w heater can’t keep-up).

Also, it’s unclear whether “stored below -13F” means “7 consecutive days with the daily high temp below -13F/-25C” (which will never happen for me; but maybe could happen every 10 years in Winnipeg); or “7 days straight where the low is below -13F/-25C” (any given December in Winnipeg; maybe twice per decade for me); or “7 consecutive days with day/night average below -13F/-25C (Winnipeg December avg. temp -22C in 2000, and -21C in 2013).

I’m sure Nissan wanted to keep the manual simple, but the warranty is tied to following the manual, so having unclear wording doesn’t help. Without hints about “plugged vs unplugged” or “high vs low vs avg temp”, about the only clear way to comply is to drive it once per week (so it’s not “stored”).

Rxleaf
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Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:28 am

I know. You have to be a lawyer just to figure out what the manual is talking about'

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