LeftieBiker
Posts: 8397
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:25 pm

Leaf Pro has shown 377 watts being used parked in the driveway the last few days.


"Watts" is a rate, not an amount of energy. Does it maybe say "watt-hours"?
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Rxleaf
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:33 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2016
Location: Cleveland, ohio

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:42 pm

I'm pulling the trigger on this thread.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

BrockWI
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:32 pm

Actually it does say "Watts" because as you mentioned it is displaying the rate.
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - 8 L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 170k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@60k miles - 61.72Ahr - 94 SOH - 95.61 Hx - 268 GID

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8397
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:40 pm

BrockWI wrote:Actually it does say "Watts" because as you mentioned it is displaying the rate.


The problem is that you can't use a rate measured at one moment to determine how much power was used from the pack over several days, unless it was a fixed rate / drain.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

BrockWI
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:22 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
BrockWI wrote:Actually it does say "Watts" because as you mentioned it is displaying the rate.


The problem is that you can't use a rate measured at one moment to determine how much power was used from the pack over several days, unless it was a fixed rate / drain.


I am sorry I didn't mean to imply you could, I agree that you can't, I was just replying to your question.

LeftieBiker wrote:Does it maybe say "watt-hours"?


I was just stating that Leaf Spy can only show the rate in Watts. All you can see is the snapshot at any given moment and take that in to account as to what the car might be doing.

For instance if I have a Leaf sitting outside, unplugged and take a reading of 377 watts with a pack temp of 0F at 10pm and it is -15F with a -30F windchill. Then the next morning I check Leaf Spy again at 6am and see the same 377 watts and the pack is at 0F I can infer that the heaters were on all night. I understand there is a chance that it may have warmed the pack up to 15F and shut off and then got cold and came on again, but I find that highly unlikely. I find it more likely the pack consumed 377 watts for 10 hours or 3.77 kWh

Obviously this isn't a normal temp the Leaf will sit at and in most cases the heater would cycle.
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - 8 L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 170k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@60k miles - 61.72Ahr - 94 SOH - 95.61 Hx - 268 GID

arnis
Posts: 834
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:38 pm

Windchill does not apply to battery.
Internal heater doesn't run at 2 or more temperature bars.
Power is taken from the pack at any temperature due to 12V battery trickle charging,
that happens once per 24h on newer Leafs and car not plugged in.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

BrockWI
Posts: 616
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 28 Mar 2014
Leaf Number: 423875
Location: Green Bay, WI.
Contact: Website

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:19 pm

arnis wrote:Windchill does not apply to battery.

Wind chill makes a difference to the battery or any object for that matter. The wind moves any remaining heat or temperature difference from the item faster. Granted it will only get to ambient temperature (unless it is wet). Think of taking two frying pans right off the stove. One sits in the back of a van and one sits on the roof rack, it's 70F outside, the van is moving at 62 MPH or 100 KPH after 5 minutes the frying pan on the roof rack will be much cooler than the one sitting in the back, that my friend is wind chill. The Leaf as a whole is affected the same way, granted the battery pack is in the belly of the car but I can assure you the battery and car will cool down much quicker to ambient temp with a 15 mph wind than no wind at all.

So in our case the battery pack heaters kick on and with a wind blowing it is pulling more of that heat off with it.
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - 8 L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 170k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@60k miles - 61.72Ahr - 94 SOH - 95.61 Hx - 268 GID

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8397
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:12 pm

I was just stating that Leaf Spy can only show the rate in Watts. All you can see is the snapshot at any given moment and take that in to account as to what the car might be doing.

For instance if I have a Leaf sitting outside, unplugged and take a reading of 377 watts with a pack temp of 0F at 10pm and it is -15F with a -30F windchill. Then the next morning I check Leaf Spy again at 6am and see the same 377 watts and the pack is at 0F I can infer that the heaters were on all night. I understand there is a chance that it may have warmed the pack up to 15F and shut off and then got cold and came on again, but I find that highly unlikely. I find it more likely the pack consumed 377 watts for 10 hours or 3.77 kWh

Obviously this isn't a normal temp the Leaf will sit at and in most cases the heater would cycle.


I agree that a consistent reading of 377 watts over many hours is a good indication of what the car is using. There should also be one blue light lit on the top of dash charging lights when the warmer is on.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

arnis
Posts: 834
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:38 pm

Windchill is given in degrees and is not about temperature but wind speed and humidity.
It is not a "yes/no" answer. Therefore giving any windchill values says nothing about battery temperature heat extraction rate.
Wind at ground level is way lower. So that lessens the effect even more. Can't be wet - heater doesn't operate at those temps.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Durandal
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:55 am
Delivery Date: 22 Sep 2016
Leaf Number: 025018
Location: Central Arkansas

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:54 pm

Is there any way to potentially turn on the battery heater using Leaf Spy or some other tool? Essentially I would love to have my battery heated in the morning to 40 or 50F as with this extreme cold I'm just barely making it to/from work on one charge where during the summer I would have 20 miles remaining. That's being very conservative with the heater and also pre-heating the car before departure while connected to L2 power.
Pulled the trigger on going EV on 10/2016 with a 2012 Leaf, and a Tesla Model 3 reservation expected to receive in June 2018.

Return to “General / Main Owners Forum”