LeftieBiker
Posts: 9783
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:48 pm

Why 40kWh Leaf doesn't have active cooling? Because it can only charge at 50kW rate (exactly the same as 30kWh Leaf), it can only discharge at averaged 45kW rate (top speed limitation) and it's still not suitable for long distance driving. Aka battery will not heat up enough and passive cooling is absolutely fine.


Except that it has NOT proven "absolutely fine" in the 30kwh Leaf outside of cool climates. Given that the 40kwh Leaf uses the same pack structure, with a higher energy density, we have to hope that Nissan has both increased energy density again, and at the same time solved the 'warm degradation' problem that ruins the 30kwh Leaf for most people. At this point that seems to me a lot like Magical Thinking. I'll be leasing a 2018 Leaf with the expectation that it will lose 20-40% capacity in three years - probably closer to 40%. I only need about 70 miles of Winter range and 100 miles of Summer range, so that isn't crazy of me, but I pity those who lease (or especially BUY) one with 100+ mile long term range needs.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

arnis
Posts: 906
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:48 pm

Image

If this is your climate, then it is close to mine. Not very warm.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

Dooglas
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:25 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:As far as never seeing much over 6 TBs, that is due more to a VERY conservative fast charge profile than any cooling of the pack. On the 30 kwh LEAF with a much more aggressive fast charge profile, its easy to get to 8,9 or 10 TBs.

I have an S30 Leaf and have never seen TBs that high. Some combination of clean living, NW weather, and very little QC charging, I suppose. ;)
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13328
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:27 am

Dooglas wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:As far as never seeing much over 6 TBs, that is due more to a VERY conservative fast charge profile than any cooling of the pack. On the 30 kwh LEAF with a much more aggressive fast charge profile, its easy to get to 8,9 or 10 TBs.

I have an S30 Leaf and have never seen TBs that high. Some combination of clean living, NW weather, and very little QC charging, I suppose. ;)


And lack of 400 mile days! ;)
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 11,987 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 110.89 Ahr , SOH 96.00, Hx 115.22
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dooglas
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:08 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 314779
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:07 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:And lack of 400 mile days!

Yes, that is most definitely true!
2013 Leaf SV - lease ended, 2016 Leaf S30

eatsleafsandshoots
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:23 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:02 pm

I wouldn't say the 30kWh model is 'ruined' considering the warranty on it. There are definitely people that will be getting more than one replacement, though.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9783
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:17 pm

eatsleafsandshoots wrote:I wouldn't say the 30kWh model is 'ruined' considering the warranty on it. There are definitely people that will be getting more than one replacement, though.


Aside from those in really hot climates, most of the people who will get those replacement batteries either can't get by on the severely reduced range they will have to endure for long periods while waiting, or can barely do so. Driving an EV isn't supposed to be about constant range anxiety while waiting for a relatively brief respite from a new battery that itself will then degrade rapidly.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

eatsleafsandshoots
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:23 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:44 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
eatsleafsandshoots wrote:I wouldn't say the 30kWh model is 'ruined' considering the warranty on it. There are definitely people that will be getting more than one replacement, though.


Aside from those in really hot climates, most of the people who will get those replacement batteries either can't get by on the severely reduced range they will have to endure for long periods while waiting, or can barely do so. Driving an EV isn't supposed to be about constant range anxiety while waiting for a relatively brief respite from a new battery that itself will then degrade rapidly.


That's totally fair. I just to happen to be in a situation where 70-80% range would be temporarily acceptable. If you're one of those folks, and you don't mind the taste of service department coffee, I don't really see a downside, especially if you were in a rebate state and didn't pay full price.

goldbrick
Posts: 270
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:30 am

eatsleafsandshoots wrote:That's totally fair. I just to happen to be in a situation where 70-80% range would be temporarily acceptable. If you're one of those folks, and you don't mind the taste of service department coffee, I don't really see a downside, especially if you were in a rebate state and didn't pay full price.


Agreed, and I'm in the same boat. I could easily live with 50% range on my 2017 S and it looks like I may get to test that out in the future. But I'm still elated with the car since I got a ton of incentives and it's just my 'around town' car. I admit that the 30kWh battery appears to be a major loser but Nissan will have to own up to that as they sold them with what I consider a pretty good warranty. And I'm confidant they will be around in 8 years to honor that warranty if and when I need them to.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9783
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: battery heater and days subzero parking

Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:05 pm

I admit that the 30kWh battery appears to be a major loser but Nissan will have to own up to that as they sold them with what I consider a pretty good warranty. And I'm confidant they will be around in 8 years to honor that warranty if and when I need them to.


If it were me I'd be concerned about software "updates" that might make that 9th bar stick around forever...or at least for 6 or 7 years.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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