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RegGuheert
Posts: 6319
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:52 pm

Yes, wintertime is shockingly worse in the LEAF. In our 2011, the resistance of one specific cell-pair increases to the point that id dominates capacity during cold weather. Even two years ago we were unable to travel 50 miles at 10 degrees Fahrenheit into a headwind. We generally are more cautious about range below about 20 degrees F.
jake14mw wrote:I know the cold snap we have been experiencing has been extreme, but it does happen in the winter.
It does get cold every winter, but this storm brought high winds with it, which greatly reduces range (except when it is pushing you from directly behind).

FWIW, our 2011 SL LEAF was parked this week. Normally my wife uses it for her 50-mile commute over a 600-foot-high mountain, but the cold (we only got down to zero Fahrenheit here in VA) combined with the wind meant that it would be hard for her to make it home all week. She will resume driving it on Monday.

With 92% of the original capacity left and a 28-mile RT commute, I think you will be able to enjoy your LEAF for may years to come.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:52 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Block the grille with cardboard (not sure how much it helps, though, even after 4 years of doing it).

Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.

My suggestions are:
  • Get a level 2 EVSE installed and preheat, preheat, preheat your car before any trip. Even if CarWings/NissanConnect doesn't work, at least go out and mess with the darn preheat timer. If you preheat you can go several miles without even needing the heater. But you need the level 2 charger to be able to preheat and leave with 100% charge.
  • If you haven't been doing it, just keep your seat and steering wheel heaters on all the time. They use hardly any electricity compared to the main heater. Then turn the main heater down or off.
  • With a Level2 EVSE you can set the charge timer to come on in the morning and charge to 100% right before you take off, which helps warm up the battery a little, although I really haven't seen that it helps much.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
1972 VW Beetle SOLD :cry:
1984 VW Golf diesel CURRENT :x
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CONTEMPLATING :shock:

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9357
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:18 pm

Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.


No, because the outside air is colder - usually MUCH colder - than the air in the motor compartment in Winter when the block is in place. Having frigid air rushing through the coils doesn't help the heat pump.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

estomax
Posts: 174
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:23 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Jan 2017
Leaf Number: 424033
Location: Seattle

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:26 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.


No, because the outside air is colder - usually MUCH colder - than the air in the motor compartment in Winter when the block is in place. Having frigid air rushing through the coils doesn't help the heat pump.


if it is as cold as east coast is right now then the heat pump does nothing at all anyway. blocking the grill will help with aerodynamics a little bit on the highway. best bet for winter range increase is to keep the cabin heat off or very low and use the seat and steering wheels heaters.

OP: do you park in the garage? that will help with range too, as the battery pack is warmer when you get going. right now your battery pack warmers are kicking in too which sucks up additional range.

Marko
2013 Leaf SL Premium
27k, 93% SoH 2/17 32k, 96% SoH 6/17
46k, 94% SoH 2/18 52k, 88% SoH 6/18

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9357
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:43 pm

if it is as cold as east coast is right now then the heat pump does nothing at all anyway. blocking the grill will help with aerodynamics a little bit on the highway.


I'm guessing that there are exposed bits of the PTC in the motor compartment as well, and that cutting down on the gale of frigid air blowing through there helps. I could be mistaken.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jake14mw
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:44 am

estomax wrote:...
OP: do you park in the garage? that will help with range too, as the battery pack is warmer when you get going. right now your battery pack warmers are kicking in too which sucks up additional range.

Marko


I park in the driveway. With our driveway/garage configuration, and the number of cars we have, parking the Leaf in the garage for charging is not practical. I do realize that would help. Thanks.

SageBrush
Posts: 2787
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:53 am

IssacZachary wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Block the grille with cardboard (not sure how much it helps, though, even after 4 years of doing it).

Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.

My suggestions are:
  • Get a level 2 EVSE installed and preheat, preheat, preheat your car before any trip. Even if CarWings/NissanConnect doesn't work, at least go out and mess with the darn preheat timer. If you preheat you can go several miles without even needing the heater. But you need the level 2 charger to be able to preheat and leave with 100% charge.
  • If you haven't been doing it, just keep your seat and steering wheel heaters on all the time. They use hardly any electricity compared to the main heater. Then turn the main heater down or off.
  • With a Level2 EVSE you can set the charge timer to come on in the morning and charge to 100% right before you take off, which helps warm up the battery a little, although I really haven't seen that it helps much.

Very good advice
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
IssacZachary
Forum Supporter
Posts: 837
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:57 am
Delivery Date: 15 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:07 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Wouldn't blocking the grill only make the heat pump have to work harder and diminish range in an SV or SL? It might help a little in an S though, although I have my doubts.


No, because the outside air is colder - usually MUCH colder - than the air in the motor compartment in Winter when the block is in place. Having frigid air rushing through the coils doesn't help the heat pump.

Are you sure? How do we know this? The only sources of heat are the motor and controller that are some 90% efficient. Depending on driving style they may produce next to no heat. At full speed you might get as much heat as a small portable electric heater, or around 1,500W of heat (60mph uses around 20hp or 15kW 10% of which is 1.5kW). And the heat pump can use some 3kW of electricity meaning it's pumping around 3kW of heat. To get 3kW of heat in the engine compartment you'd really need to be going quite fast (90mph perhaps). Or at least that's how I see it.

What we need is a test. Maybe someone has already done such a test? And the test isn't just the engine compartment. It's the temperature of the heat pump's heat exchanger in the grill that would determine efficiency. Air has to circulate through the heat exchanger for it to work. Otherwise it will get very cold and stop working, even if the rest of the motor compartment is warmer than outside.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
1972 VW Beetle SOLD :cry:
1984 VW Golf diesel CURRENT :x
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CONTEMPLATING :shock:

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9357
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:41 am

You seem to be thinking that the grille block seals the motor compartment. That doesn't happen. People have run the A/C with one in place. It just reduces airflow.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Deoc
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:58 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Mar 2015

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:08 am

The heat pump has its limits, below 35-30F the heat pump can't get more heat from the outside so the resistance heater has to work, this one is inside the car and doesnt use any liquids on the 2013 and up models, so blocking the grill doesnt do anything, the best thing to do is pre heat the car, inflate tires properly and drive careful.
The reason I said before to run you car to turtle mode is so you get to know how many miles you get after very low battery, do in a test around your house, the reason is in my car i was able to get 10 more miles after very low batter in the summer going 35-40 mph, while winter is different knowing the limitations of the car allows you to drive it more.

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