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Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:03 am
by IssacZachary
Deoc wrote:The heat pump has its limits, below 35-30F the heat pump can't get more heat from the outside so the resistance heater has to work, this one is inside the car and doesnt use any liquids on the 2013 and up models, so blocking the grill doesnt do anything,

Yes, at a certain temperature the heat pump stops working and it goes to resistance heat. But it's closer to 5*F-10*F when I've noticed it go from heat pump to resistance heat in my 2013 SL. And even then, the outside temperature isn't likely going to stay at such freezing temperatures all winter long. Some days are warmer than others. Even here where I've driven my Leaf in -35*F weather one day in a week it can be 40*F. It seems to me that it's better to keep air flow to the heat exchangers because of this. After all, this isn't an ICE that needs to be kept at boiling temperatures with it's own heat. Instead we're trying to heat up a freezing cold heat exchanger with no noteworthy source of heat except cold ambient air.
LeftieBiker wrote:You seem to be thinking that the grille block seals the motor compartment. That doesn't happen. People have run the A/C with one in place. It just reduces airflow.

That's the point. It reduces air flow. You don't want to reduce air flow over a heat exchanger. This I know. After all, I own a 1972 air cooled VW Beetle. The more air that flows through it the more heat is exchanged. The less air that flows through it the less heat is exchanged. The less heat is exchanged the less efficient it is. The less efficient it is, more energy is used.

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:37 pm
by LeftieBiker
That's the point. It reduces air flow. You don't want to reduce air flow over a heat exchanger. This I know. After all, I own a 1972 air cooled VW Beetle. The more air that flows through it the more heat is exchanged. The less air that flows through it the less heat is exchanged. The less heat is exchanged the less efficient it is. The less efficient it is, more energy is used.


Let me put this another way. I've been using the grille block for four Winters now (I'm usually late remembering it, though) and the range is either unaffected or it increases slightly. You argument makes sense on paper, but in application I suspect that the system's physical parameters cancel out the benefit of having increased airflow when that air is close to the lower limit of the system's capabilities. My own thinking, based on my experiences, is that it would prefer smaller amounts of warmer air.

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:51 pm
by Levenkay
LeftieBiker wrote:in application I suspect that the system's physical parameters cancel out the benefit of having increased airflow when that air is close to the lower limit of the system's capabilities. My own thinking, based on my experiences, is that it would prefer smaller amounts of warmer air.
Hadn't thought about this before, but that sounds plausible; the heat pump might be able to suck up heat dissipated from the motor and inverter that way, if it isn't being whooshed out of the engine compartment.

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:29 pm
by LeftieBiker
The Bolt, though it lacks a heatpump, scavenges heat from the drive electronics and uses it to slightly heat the cabin even with the heat off - though I assume not with the A/C on.

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:02 am
by tadmcmichael
We are in Atlanta and have had a bit of a cold snap for a couple of weeks. Range has been diminished as would be expected. However, what I didn’t expect is that the counter is showing far less range after turning the car on after charging. Car showed 72 Miles this morning vs 92 Miles a month ago. Is it normal for the onboard computer to compensate for the cold weather?

LeafSpy says SOH is 94% is 2015 Leaf S on Level 1 charging.

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:35 am
by powersurge
Full heat uses same energy as driving the car. 100 miles ranged turns into 40-50 miles range.

use electric blanket from cigarette lighter
set heat to 68 degrees and only 1-2 bars of blower speed
hats and gloves and heated seats and steering wheel

It is not as bad as OP described it.

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:47 am
by Foschas
My 2015 with 12 bars and 30K is also not liking my commute either. Use all the tricks and still get dashed lines with my 44 miles back road round trip in the zero degree weather we had. Was not so bad last year for me because I could quick charge at my dealer. The dealers QC has been down for 10 months now though and it’s the only one around.
So I use my level two and need at least 2 hours before I can think about another very limited trek.

Deaf ears at my dealer though. New QC has been installed for three months and still no go. So I feel your pain. No fun being limited by your car’s range

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:06 pm
by LeftieBiker
We are in Atlanta and have had a bit of a cold snap for a couple of weeks. Range has been diminished as would be expected. However, what I didn’t expect is that the counter is showing far less range after turning the car on after charging. Car showed 72 Miles this morning vs 92 Miles a month ago. Is it normal for the onboard computer to compensate for the cold weather?


The range estimator (called the "Guess O Meter" because of its inaccuracy, especially at the beginning of a trip) goes by the car's energy efficiency over the last few minutes before it was previously shut off. So if you were using the heat on the last trip it will show less available range for that reason.

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:14 pm
by jake14mw
I just completed my Level 2 Install, and it certainly helps make the car feel more capable. Now, on the weekend, when I take a longer morning trip, my car is useable again in a couple of hours.

Re: Winter has cut my love for my Leaf :(

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:26 am
by Stanton
jake14mw wrote:I just completed my Level 2 Install, and it certainly helps make the car feel more capable. Now, on the weekend, when I take a longer morning trip, my car is useable again in a couple of hours.


Congrats: I really can't see long-term use of a Leaf without L2 charging.
Not only that, pre-heating with L1 is a losing battle (even L2 is on the edge).