GerryAZ
Gold Member
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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:51 pm

Costy,

If your commute is 60 miles round trip (30 miles each way) and you are assured the ability to charge at work every day, a LEAF will work for you. You will need to charge at work and at home during colder months, but you might make the round trip during warmer months. If you want to push to make the round trip on a single charge as much as possible, you need a LEAF with a heat pump HVAC system (2013-2017 SV or SL) or any 2018 with the larger battery.
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9816
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:52 pm

Longer term, your climate is going to dictate whether you can continue to do that commute as battery degradation rate is almost entirely dictated by how hot your summers are (provided you don't otherwise do abusive charging cycles).


Assuming that he gets a 4/2013 or later build. Earlier Leafs will degrade from time alone.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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IssacZachary
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Leaf Number: 420789
Location: Gunnison, CO, USA

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:14 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Longer term, your climate is going to dictate whether you can continue to do that commute as battery degradation rate is almost entirely dictated by how hot your summers are (provided you don't otherwise do abusive charging cycles).


Assuming that he gets a 4/2013 or later build. Earlier Leafs will degrade from time alone.

Unless he finds one with a newer battery.
RegGuheert wrote:
Costy wrote:Someone asked me about the elevation. At home I have about 2200 feet, on top of the mountain I have 3220 feet and at work only 1100 feet.
From the top of the mountain to work I go downhill about 95% of the time and from top to home I go downhill 100%. The average speed is about 35-40 miles.
That profile really is quite ideal if you are charging at work IF THE REGEN IS WORKING. The reason is that you will deplete the battery significantly before you start downhill. You probably want AT LEAST 20 kW of regen available, if you have more available, like maybe 30 kW, then you can do more than hold your speed on the downhills: you can slow the car for the turns, too.

If he keeps a steady speed without needing to slow down for turns it sounds like 10kW of regen would work with that kind of elevation change and car speed.
2013 SL SOLD :cry:
2013 Toyota Avalon Hybrid CURRENT

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RegGuheert
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Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
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Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:12 pm

IssacZachary wrote:If he keeps a steady speed without needing to slow down for turns it sounds like 10kW of regen would work with that kind of elevation change and car speed.
Based on this...
Costy wrote:I live in a mountain area so there is no highway, only curvy roads and in the winter the temps can go down as low as 0 Fahrenheit but not very often. The average temp in winter is 30 to 20 Fahrenheit.
...it sounds like he will have to slow down for curves. On the mountain we live near, you need more than 20 kW to hold your speed in the LEAF, but our MY2011 with three capacity bars gone gives us NONE in the wintertime, even after driving 10 miles and then climbing the other side for two miles. Coming home after driving another 25 miles, there is still no more than about 6 kW. If there were curves, it would be much worse since the brakes would be a safety requirement. As it is, they are needed only to avoid the police.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Costy
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:15 am
Delivery Date: 02 Apr 2018
Location: Oberau, Germany

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:28 am

Thank you again guys for the support. I am looking at some other options because I know it's not good for the batteries to
deeply discharge every time. It seems that I need a car with a higher range so the batteries will work better.
I saw these days a Fiat 500e and I was surprised that there is such an EV car. I google it and I found that the owners are quite happy and the average trips are about 87 miles. It might be a better option because of a little longer range. The price is very low for a second hand one.
I don't want to spend a lot of money on a new 40kWh Leaf even if I like it very much.

LeftieBiker
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:38 pm

The Fiat is not just a "compliance car" (A gas car converted to EV drive for zero emission credits) but they are also converted individually, by hand. You'd think that this would help the quality, but it doesn't. I'd also worry about parts support in the future from Fiat/Chrysler. As for cycling the Leaf batteries, that doesn't hurt them, as long as they don't sit for long periods at 100% charge or at less than 20% charge. Quick Charging when the battery is hot also isn't good for it.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
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Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:56 pm

@Costy before you dismiss the LEAF entirely, spend a few minutes using the EV trip planner I mentioned. It will give you a decent kWh estimate for your commute and if you set the outside temp low (as I suggested) then that will give you a decent idea of winter usage conditions. Make sure to calculate the reverse trip energy usage too. Then, post back the round trip estimated energy usage results here.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
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Loving my first BEV :D

cwerdna
Posts: 8398
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:22 pm

Costy: Asking about your location again. Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Can you reliably charge at home and work each day?
Costy wrote:.
I saw these days a Fiat 500e and I was surprised that there is such an EV car. I google it and I found that the owners are quite happy and the average trips are about 87 miles. It might be a better option because of a little longer range. The price is very low for a second hand one.

Fiat 500e is a California compliance car. FCA's CEO doesn't like making EVs very much (e.g. https://insideevs.com/fiat-ceo-fiat-los ... 500e-sold/ and https://www.reuters.com/article/chrsyel ... MS20140521).

If you're not in California, you may have trouble getting it serviced, if something goes wrong. FCA reliability, at least for their ICEVs (internal combustion engine vehicles) is pretty dismal so it might be pretty risky once it goes out of warranty.

EPA range rating for the 500e is 3 miles more than a '13 to '15 Leaf: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do ... 9&id=37067.
https://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/21/201 ... y-84-in-n/
https://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf- ... -84-miles/

30 kWh Leaf ('16 SV and SL and late '16 "S 30" (https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... gher-price) and all '17 Leafs) would give you more cushion in your cold weather.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Costy
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:15 am
Delivery Date: 02 Apr 2018
Location: Oberau, Germany

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:15 am

About location, I live in Europe, in Germany and here are a lot of dealers that are importing now many Fiat 500e and I thought it could be an option. The real issue here is that there is no customer service and I heard that even in States, outside California and Oregon is hard to find support if you have some problems.
So no, I didn't quite forgot the Leaf. Even in Europe now the prices are going down on older Leafs because of the new 2018 model. There are good prices now for 2013 - 2015 models, for 2016 are still high. I don't know which year will be the best for my particular case.
Do you know guys where I can check the VIN ? Did you have any recalls, any software updates I should be aware of?

Thank you again guys,
All the best - Costy.

cwerdna
Posts: 8398
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 60 miles daily roundtrip all year long

Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:18 am

Costy: Thanks for indicating your location. Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Can you reliably charge at home and work each day? This makes a huge difference on whether you need 30 miles of range autonomy in a day on a charge vs. 60 miles.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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