edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:36 am

DarthPuppy wrote:Wow. I salute you for continuing to make it work despite challenges the battery deterioration is treating you to. I hope you have luck in resolving the battery dispute.

Keeping these in service long term as long as the battery meets the needs is really the most environmentally friendly option. So other than the battery deterioration, it is still going strong?...

Sure. It's a (fairly) well kept car with less than 60 k miles.

And remember that with ~18.5 kWh remaining, it still has about the same capacity as (and much longer electric range) than a brand-new 2018 Chevy Volt. If my commute wasn't so long, fifty to sixty miles, I'd probably be content to continue to use the OE battery for years to come.

DarthPuppy wrote:...It might be a good candidate for a battery replacement, even if it has to be paid without help from Nissan...

And that brings up another feature of Nissan's screw you battery replacement policy.

Nissan has refused to sell me a new pack, unless I give them back my OE pack for only $1k in credit, a fraction of my pack's current value.
no condition is permanent

racerkit
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:22 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3867
Location: Redwood Shores

Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:30 pm

June, 2011 car here.
Currently at 71,500 miles
Cost of Maintenance: $365 - set of tire at 64K miles and a set of wipers
8 bar reached at about year 6th (~70mos), 62K miles in March, 2017
Begged/Negotiated with Nissan, and paid $2400 for a new 2017 battery pack.

--- there was speculation that 2017 battery pack is maybe a 2016+ model battery pack with 30kWH at 107 miles range, and not the original Lizard pack. My experiences so far is proven more truth than not ;) . I am now getting 105, 107 on full charge, even on the new less efficient tires (non OEM Ecopia). I am not sure if it's true 30kwh pack, but definitely more than the original 24kwh capacity.

LeftieBiker
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:57 pm

What was your range when the original pack was new?
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DarthPuppy
Posts: 661
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:51 pm

edatoakrun wrote:Nissan has refused to sell me a new pack, unless I give them back my OE pack for only $1k in credit, a fraction of my pack's current value.

Dang that is not nice. I can see why they would want to get the OE pack back. But to outright refuse to sell you a new battery without the return isn't nice.

And let me guess: Did they program the car so non-Nissan shops can't do a battery swap that will work properly with the car? Otherwise, it would be tempting to buy a near new wreck just to get a fresh battery to swap. Don't some jurisdictions have laws that would require them to sell parts to non-affiliated repair shops or allow the car to be serviced outside of their control? They might not actually be able to enforce that policy. I just guessing on these aspects. I would hope they can't force us to use them to repair or replace components on the car. I thought there were laws in place to protect the existence of independent repair shops.
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powersurge
Posts: 1007
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:24 am
Delivery Date: 06 Dec 2014
Location: Long Island, NY

Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:04 am

DarthPuppy wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:Nissan has refused to sell me a new pack, unless I give them back my OE pack for only $1k in credit, a fraction of my pack's current value.

Dang that is not nice. I can see why they would want to get the OE pack back. But to outright refuse to sell you a new battery without the return isn't nice.

And let me guess: Did they program the car so non-Nissan shops can't do a battery swap that will work properly with the car? Otherwise, it would be tempting to buy a near new wreck just to get a fresh battery to swap. Don't some jurisdictions have laws that would require them to sell parts to non-affiliated repair shops or allow the car to be serviced outside of their control? They might not actually be able to enforce that policy. I just guessing on these aspects. I would hope they can't force us to use them to repair or replace components on the car. I thought there were laws in place to protect the existence of independent repair shops.


I agree with Nissan on getting the batteries back... More and more EVs will be on the road. Can you imagine the ecological effect of millions of 600lb batteries going into the ground? Also, it is the most efficient way to recycle the old batteries to make new ones.

Also, If you are replacing the battery because it is bad, then it has NO VALUE. You just want to play with it. I don't trust home hobbyists taking batteries apart.

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OrientExpress
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Leaf Number: 2331
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Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:43 am

There is nothing unusual about requiring a core turn-in on a high value part before selling another one in the automotive industry. Transmissions, many electronic parts and other mechanical parts all have the same core return policies.

A traction battery is certainly a high value piece, and given its recyclability it is completely understandable, no core, no new battery.
2018 LEAF SL
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Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:50 am

powersurge wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:...Nissan has refused to sell me a new pack, unless I give them back my OE pack for only $1k in credit, a fraction of my pack's current value...

...If you are replacing the battery because it is bad, then it has NO VALUE...

As I've already explained, my pack has about the same capacity in kWh as that installed in a brand-new 2018 Chevy Volt.

Only an idiot would say this battery has "NO VALUE".

OrientExpress wrote:There is nothing unusual about requiring a core turn-in on a high value part before selling another one in the automotive industry. Transmissions, many electronic parts and other mechanical parts all have the same core return policies...

I believe your statement is false.

AFAIK, every other core charge is made when a core is not returned, a decision which is left entirely at the option of the owner/buyer.

OrientExpress wrote: A traction battery is certainly a high value piece, and given its recyclability it is completely understandable, no core, no new battery.

Actually, I expect Nissan would re-purpose, not recycle my pack, were I to return it, just as I would if I kept it, since it probably has ten to twenty years of useful life remaining in a stationary application.

Even if Nissan can legally demand that I return my OE pack as a condition of sale of a new pack (which I doubt) that does not relieve Nissan of the obligation it had to disclose this unusual policy before I bought my LEAF (from my 2011 lease) in 2012.
no condition is permanent

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OrientExpress
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Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:07 am

I believe your statement is false.

AFAIK, every other core charge is made when a core is not returned, a decision which is left entirely at the option of the owner/buyer.


Nope, for high value parts that can be resold as reconditioned, it is the norm.

You may be thinking of stuff like batteries, or alternators, little stuff like that. But if your automatic transmission needs replacing, the old part goes back for refurb.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:38 am

OrientExpress wrote:
I believe your statement is false.

AFAIK, every other core charge is made when a core is not returned, a decision which is left entirely at the option of the owner/buyer.

Nope, for high value parts that can be resold as reconditioned, it is the norm...

Then what is the norm when a core part is in such poor shape that it cannot be reconditioned?
You are saying that you are then not even permitted to buy the replacement part?

Why would a vendor even name a core charge, if it could never be charged?

In any case, since the re-purposing of LEAF batteries was included in Nissan's 2011 MY sales pitch, if Nissan intended to block LEAF owners from doing just that it should have been disclosed at the time of sale of the LEAF, and the pack.

There was no hint from Nissan back in 2011-12 that it would ever place this condition on buyers of replacement packs, when the requirement arose.
no condition is permanent

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OrientExpress
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Re: Seven year report, 2011 LEAF.

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:55 am

Then what is the norm when a core part is in such poor shape that it cannot be reconditioned?
You are saying that you are then not even permitted to buy the part?

In any case, since the re-purposing of LEAF batteries was included in Nissan's 2011 MY sales pitch, if Nissan intended to block LEAF owners from doing just that it should have been disclosed at the time of sale of the LEAF, and the pack.

There was no hint from Nissan back in 2011 that it would ever place conditions on buyers of replacement packs, when the requirement arose.


It is not the decision at the field level to determine the serviceability of a part. That decision is made at the depot level. And yes there are parts that once they are examined at the depot, that are deemed not be able to be refurbished. Those major assemblies are usually broken down into their component parts and recycled.

The concept of refurbishing packs for reuse is still valid and is done by Nissan, it is just not something that is considered to be an end-user activity. The same applies for other large expensive major components like automatic transmissions that require special tools or equipment for repair.

However there is an eBay marketplace for salvaged LEAF batteries that might have the parts that you are looking for.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

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