SageBrush
Posts: 2585
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:59 pm

arnis wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Just because it might not be used, doesn't mean it's useless.


AFAIK, this is exactly what useless means.

You and WetEV need a qualifier: useless for the two of you.
Far from useless for all the people who do not live in cool climates
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

arnis
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Tue May 01, 2018 3:34 am

Well, BMW, Tesla etc offer cold weather package. There is no reason for Nissan not to offer cold weather package OR hot weather package.
Cold weather package has all-around seat heaters and steering wheel heater and battery PTC heating elements and heat pump.
Hot weather package has no seat heaters, has no steering wheel heater, has no battery PTC heating elements (never used down to 14F)
and no heat pump functionality. But it does have battery cooling system. Both packages should be approximately the same price.
To keep base price the same, only S-trim should be with no package (battery heater exception in cold region). SV should be one of those two.
SL might even have most of these functions. Though this will add to the price and is basically unreasonable.

There is no such markets where it is hot (30C / 90F and more) for long and cold -10C / 15F) for long (summer/winter).
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

webeleafowners
Posts: 504
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Tue May 01, 2018 5:54 am

One of the things we are thankful for on are leaf is the ability to leave town for a couple months and see virtually no drop on the state of charge. Our smart is not as ghost in this respect and I have heard that neither Tesla or Bolt can do this. Is the reason the active cooling? I don’t know. But it is a nice perc for us.
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

WetEV
Posts: 2184
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Tue May 01, 2018 6:28 am

SageBrush wrote:
arnis wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Just because it might not be used, doesn't mean it's useless.


AFAIK, this is exactly what useless means.

You and WetEV need a qualifier: useless for the two of you.
Far from useless for all the people who do not live in cool climates


Would be useful for really cold places, as the battery heater wouldn't use as much power due to insulation. Think Yukon. Places where the battery heater is on nearly all the time, trying hard to keep the pack above 0C.

Worse than useless for me.

Exactly useless for anyone who's range is hurt exactly as much by the active cooling than is helped by slower range loss in hot days over the life of the car.

Break even for someone in a near average climate, with the higher upfront cost being repaid by improved battery life.

Useful for the hot places.

Yes, Nissan's battery life isn't what some would want, to say the least. I'm glad I have a "lizard pack". The problem isn't the lack active cooling, for most people. Hot places, perhaps.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13071
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Tue May 01, 2018 6:34 am

WetEV wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:One that has not been mentioned here is that Nissan picked one of the worst chemistries for heat tolerance. Now that formula has been tweaked constantly but the results do not appear to be trending consistently... to say the least


Yes. One of the worst for heat tolerance, but also one of the best for safety. No battery pack fires, unlike T esla.


Chemistry didn't hurt but most of it is the exposure the Tesla pack has verses the more compact LEAF pack which is easier to protect. Lack of fluids also meant any possible damage to the pack was not as spectacular.

The big fire that happened in WA a few years ago wouldn't have happened to a LEAF simply because the road object that punctured the Tesla pack would have missed the LEAF pack completely
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 8743 miles, 485 GIDs, 37.6 kwh 111.39 Ahr , SOH 96.49, Hx 114.98
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

WetEV
Posts: 2184
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Tue May 01, 2018 6:37 am

arnis wrote:There is no reason for Nissan not to offer cold weather package OR hot weather package.


Interesting idea. Sure, might be packages for several different climates. There are limits to how many options can be presented, of course.

I'd rather that Nissan not release battery chemistries that are ___. Fill in your favorite adjective for poor, mine isn't safe for work. This is the real problem.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

SageBrush
Posts: 2585
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Tue May 01, 2018 7:00 am

WetEV wrote:Break even for someone in a near average climate, with the higher upfront cost being repaid by improved battery life.

Not even close, which is Nissan's problem in a nutshell.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 2184
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Tue May 01, 2018 8:05 am

SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote:Break even for someone in a near average climate, with the higher upfront cost being repaid by improved battery life.

Not even close, which is Nissan's problem in a nutshell.


Please don't miss-characterize Nissan's problems.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

arnis
Posts: 886
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Wed May 02, 2018 7:20 am

WetEV wrote:Would be useful for really cold places, as the battery heater wouldn't use as much power due to insulation. Think Yukon. Places where the battery heater is on nearly all the time, trying hard to keep the pack above 0C.

Worse than useless for me.


True. Most fans don't even know that, but Tesla's pack is far from perfect. In my climate,
it's also "worse than useless". My Leaf has battery below -5*C for two months. Heating it up every day is nonsense.
Nissan's chemistry can regen and DC charge even at -5*C. That is not possible on Tesla's.
Note, Model 3 doesn't have dedicated battery heater and going to SuperCharger after battery has been cold soaked might mean an hour of idling just to get the pack warm enough to take ANY charge. Unheardof and worse than useless.
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

SageBrush
Posts: 2585
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems

Wed May 02, 2018 8:22 am

arnis wrote: going to SuperCharger after battery has been cold soaked might mean an hour of idling just to get the pack warm enough to take ANY charge..

BS
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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