Recent experience with new Leaf - wow! :)

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kennethbokor

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
84
Location
Caledon, ON Canada
Just a quick note that I had an opportunity to spend a couple of days driving around Ottawa ON and Gatineau PQ area with the new Leaf. I drove both the SV and SL trims.

I have to say, I am really glad I went ahead and purchased the new Leaf. The car was amazing to drive- quiet, responsive, good suspension and comfortable. I took it on highways, city streets and country back roads - even some dirt road areas with extreme curves and bumps. Never did the new Leaf loose it's composure.

And that e-Pedal, I really can't say enough about it. I've never had any vehicle with any automation other than plain cruise control, so I was not really that excited about Pro-Pilot and e-Pedal. However, after using both of these systems for an extended period, I have to say they are real winners. I was stuck in bad traffic at one point where I only went 1 kilometre in 40 minutes. All that time was using e-Pedal and did it ever help to make the driving experience better.

I'll be positing my review on it soon on my YouTube show "The EV Revolution Show" as well on the Model 3 Owners Club Channel. If you've not yet subscribed to our new channel, I would encourage you to do so it interested.

I'll share much more info on my review, however I just felt I wanted to post this quick topic to those that may be on the fence or feel any negativity towards the Leaf due to the #rapidgate nonsense.

As an all-around practical all-Electric Vehicle (BEV), the 2018 Leaf certainly is a great car. If your interest is for long trips consistently where you will need multiple DCFC-ing, then look at something else. Plain and simple.
 
kennethbokor said:
I'll share much more info on my review, however I just felt I wanted to post this quick topic to those that may be on the fence or feel any negativity towards the Leaf due to the #rapidgate nonsense.

Your quick topic does absolutely nothing to explain why I should regard it as nonsense, so how could it quell such negative feelings?
 
If it rains much in your area you may want to fashion a cap to put over the drivers side front strut as Nissan still hasn't fixed the leakage problem yet, at least not the brand new SL I looked at on the lot today. When I lifted the little access grill it was filled with water as one might expect, salesman wasn't impressed :cry:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21723
 
Nubo said:
kennethbokor said:
I'll share much more info on my review, however I just felt I wanted to post this quick topic to those that may be on the fence or feel any negativity towards the Leaf due to the #rapidgate nonsense.

Your quick topic does absolutely nothing to explain why I should regard it as nonsense, so how could it quell such negative feelings?

Since the Leaf is programmed to operate the way it does via multiple DCFC-ing, it makes no sense to complain about it or wait for a "fix" which is not coming. As an example the e-Golf does the same thing. These throttle-downs are done on purpose so the whole issue is really nonsense.

If you still take issue then simply don't buy the 2018 Leaf. You have a choice and don't complain about what Nissan has done or not done, simply look at your options available thru multiple vendors and if you are in the market to purchase a BEV, then you have many choices.
 
kennethbokor said:
If you still take issue then simply don't buy the 2018 Leaf.

Not everyone wants or needs a car that can take long journeys quickly. The Leaf is a fine commuter car, not ideal for 4x4 driving, long road trips at high speeds, or very hot places.
 
Given the longevity issue with the 30kwh pack, it would be foolish to just assume that the 40kwh version of it will be fine, and to cheerfully buy the car because you don't need multiple QCs. It will be a big enough risk just to lease the damned thing.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Given the longevity issue with the 30kwh pack, it would be foolish to just assume that the 40kwh version of it will be fine, and to cheerfully buy the car because you don't need multiple QCs. It will be a big enough risk just to lease the damned thing.

Risks are that you will either get battery(s) replaced under warranty, or that the battery might just miss the warranty, or maybe even both. How bad are these risks to you? 100,000 miles and 8 years is as bad as it might get.

As I wrote years ago, battery degradation happens. Plan on it. Rely on less range than you can get after losing 4 bars.

Changing technology will open new doors and close old ones, speeding obsolescence, few takers for 286 computers these days.
 
The problem is when the generally uninformed public purchases a car expecting it to actually and reasonably work as close to an ice car as possible. This 2018 has some shortcomings that it should not have. These Nissan battery issues keep giving all EVs an undeserved bad rap. I'm keeping my fingers and toes crossed that the 2019 Leaf will at least measure up to the current leaders in the industry and Nissan wil quit producing short lived batteries.
 
WetEV said:
Rely on less range than you can get after losing 4 bars.
.
Indeed, going by this rule is not only prudent but will prevent disappointment in the purchase.
The problem is that $30 - $35k is a lot of money for a 90 mile range car.

I get that range from my 24 kWh LEAF and it cost me $7k
More to the point though, the conservative range does not let me do anything in a 40 kWh LEAF I cannot do in my much cheaper car. They are both quite hobbled.
 
The problem is when the generally uninformed public purchases a car expecting it to actually and reasonably work as close to an ice car as possible.

Just expecting a 2018 Leaf to live up to its own advance PR is going to prove disappointing to many more savvy EV drivers. '150 mile range! 45 minute fast charge to 80%!' is looking more like "100 miles of real world range after two years. One fast QC per trip - after that plan on eating a leisurely dinner while you wait."
 
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
Rely on less range than you can get after losing 4 bars.
Indeed, going by this rule is not only prudent but will prevent disappointment in the purchase.
The problem is that $30 - $35k is a lot of money for a 90 mile range car.

I get that range from my 24 kWh LEAF and it cost me $7k

Yet you don't get that from a 24kWh Leaf as "No Worries Range". I've gotten over 100 miles on a charge multiple times on my 24kWh Leafs, but that doesn't make it a 100 mile range car. I will not get 90 miles into a headwind on a wet cold rainy day in the future when my battery has just lost the 4th bar. I couldn't get 75 miles into a headwind on a wet cold rainy day last winter!

SageBrush said:
More to the point though, the conservative range does not let me do anything in a 40 kWh LEAF I cannot do in my much cheaper car. They are both quite hobbled.

The Leaf is not hobbled for commuting with little bother, no stops for gasoline, less maintenance and lower fuel cost.

I wouldn't take a Leaf up a 4x4 jeep trail, or a road trip across the USA. I wouldn't try out outrun a Porsche on a track. Carrying a ton of lumber wouldn't be wise.

I'd hate to drive a 4x4 around town, waste of gasoline. I'd rather fly or take the train across the USA, depending on my schedule, or take the wife's car if it was summer. I'd hate to pay for maintenance on a Porsche. Trucks are a pain to park and suck gasoline.

Pick the correct tool for the job. Leaf for commuting, family around town. Something else for something else.

If you pick the wrong tool for the job, a poor workman will blame his tools, call it hobbled.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Just expecting a 2018 Leaf to live up to its own advance PR is going to prove disappointing to many more savvy EV drivers. '150 mile range! 45 minute fast charge to 80%!' is looking more like "100 miles of real world range after two years. One fast QC per trip - after that plan on eating a leisurely dinner while you wait."

If you need more than one QC per trip, you are taking the wrong car.
 
WetEV said:
LeftieBiker said:
Just expecting a 2018 Leaf to live up to its own advance PR is going to prove disappointing to many more savvy EV drivers. '150 mile range! 45 minute fast charge to 80%!' is looking more like "100 miles of real world range after two years. One fast QC per trip - after that plan on eating a leisurely dinner while you wait."

If you need more than one QC per trip, you are taking the wrong car.
Are you also taking the wrong car if that QC is at 22 kW during summer months ?
 
It's not that it's a bad car, or that it's not the right car for some people. But after willingly accepting the constraints of a 2012 LEAF and a 2015 LEAF, I was hoping Nissan (after 8 years) would finally and forcefully lay battery concerns to rest. The time for hand-waving and making allowances is quickly passing. LEAF has competition now.
 
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
If you need more than one QC per trip, you are taking the wrong car.
Are you also taking the wrong car if that QC is at 22 kW during summer months ?

If your battery is that hot before a QC, you might own the wrong car. Or live in the wrong place. Take your pick.

You are missing the point that a lot of the Leaf market is people that don't take trips beyond initial range, and don't live in places that hot. Or both.


Nubo said:
LEAF has competition now.

Exactly.
Back in the day with one mass market BEV, the Leaf, people wanted the Leaf to be more things than it possibly could be at that price point with the technology of the day. May 2012, when I bought my first Leaf.

Now that there are five mass market BEVs, 3 Teslas S, X and 3, the GM Bolt, and the Leaf. OK, maybe the i3 as well. Ignoring compliance and limited production cars.

Soon there be far more.

If there is only one choice, and it doesn't meet your needs, you complain. If there are 20 or 100 choices, you pick the one that comes closest to your needs.

I suspect there is a sizable market for a non-TMS smaller battery car much like the Leaf. Might not be for you. No problem.
 
WetEV said:
LeftieBiker said:
Just expecting a 2018 Leaf to live up to its own advance PR is going to prove disappointing to many more savvy EV drivers. '150 mile range! 45 minute fast charge to 80%!' is looking more like "100 miles of real world range after two years. One fast QC per trip - after that plan on eating a leisurely dinner while you wait."

If you need more than one QC per trip, you are taking the wrong car.

Or Nissan does not make the right car but other EV makers do, I guess a Bolt or Tesla or other potential EVs are the right cars. Or, Nissan is the "flawed" car and others are not. Nissan has had the LEAF on the market for almost eight years, it's time to stop making excuses for their poor battery design. There is no sizable market for a non TMS car going forward unless the price is very low and significantly reduced by Nissan. What happens when the incentive is gone on the LEAF? I'm sure Nissan knows they need this to change and if not they are going to be in trouble in the next few years.
 
WetEV said:
You are missing the point that a lot of the Leaf market is people that don't take trips beyond initial range, and don't live in places that hot. Or both.
I have no idea what "a lot" means, but the PNW is only a small sliver of EV sales. And since Nissan markets and sells the LEAF throughout the country, there is a big problem. Your posts reminds me of DaveInOly quizzing unhappy buyers how long the LEAF sat on the car lot prior to purchase. He may have been right about the effect, but he was dishing out harsh criticism of the car (I think inadvertently) by pointing out just how flawed the battery was and the untenable position of the consumer. Unless of course you think any consumer should have to pass the MNL approved LEAF literacy and competency test before being allowed to buy a car.

uc
 
EVDRIVER said:
WetEV said:
LeftieBiker said:
Just expecting a 2018 Leaf to live up to its own advance PR is going to prove disappointing to many more savvy EV drivers. '150 mile range! 45 minute fast charge to 80%!' is looking more like "100 miles of real world range after two years. One fast QC per trip - after that plan on eating a leisurely dinner while you wait."

If you need more than one QC per trip, you are taking the wrong car.

Or Nissan does not make the right car but other EV makers do, I guess a Bolt or Tesla or other potential EVs are the right cars.

if you frequently make trips needing more than one QC per trip, I agree.


EVDRIVER said:
There is no sizable market for a non TMS car going forward unless the price is very low and significantly reduced by Nissan. What happens when the incentive is gone on the LEAF? I'm sure Nissan knows they need this to change and if not they are going to be in trouble in the next few years.

Change is needed, to be sure.

Exactly what changes, ah, that's the rub. It's partially a matter of scale. And the key point on the scaling isn't known by anyone. If you claim to know, I suggest you think some more.

TMS meaning active cooling, correct? Cell phones don't have active cooling. I can't see how active cooling could be implemented without making the cell phone larger and heavier than a brick, and cost much more than a non-actively cooled phone. And for what? Perhaps twice the battery life? At the cost of needed four times the battery capacity, or perhaps even more? A fan on a cell phone??? Perhaps if you often leave your phone in your car in Death Valley. With the windows rolled up.

On the other end of the scale, a utility scale battery can well benefit from the added complexity as even 10% more battery life is a lot of money. It is cheaper and easier to build a huge cooling system than a tiny one, and far more efficient. Cheaper per kWh of battery cooling.

A car is in the middle of this scaling issue. Now with a static technology of batteries, an engineering team might work out roughly the size of battery where larger it makes sense to spend battery capacity for active cooling, and smaller it makes sense to accept faster battery capacity reduction with no active cooling to reduce cost.

Got the scaling point down? Now think some more. Battery technology isn't static. Active cooling doesn't solve all capacity loss issues, witness the Ford Focus Electric. There are different current battery technologies that work better in different temperature ranges. Would it be better to have a lower temperature battery and cool most places, or a higher temperature battery and heat most places?
 
SageBrush said:
I have no idea what "a lot" means,

Actually, I don't as well. I suspect the median PNW EV will be generally better off without a TMS, excluding performance EVs of various sorts. I suspect that the most EVs in the hottest places will need active cooling. Where is line is between the two cases? I know I can't draw it, and I don't think you can as well.
 
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