Using Leaf as emergency power backup - electrical question

I saw some videos people use their EV as emergency power backup, it can run for several days with 2018 Leaf I believe. I am planning to buy an Pure Sine Wave Inverter in case of blackout. However, the more I read about it, the more complicated it gets. It is regarding to "bonded neutral" vs "floating neutral", this is very similar to gas generator.

I bought a Reliance Control Transfer Switch TF151W for the furnace, because you cannot use an extension cord. If you understand some basic AC electrical concept, you will know in the Main Service AC Panel in our houses in North America, the Neutral (white) and Ground (Green/bare copper) are connected/bonded by code.

Now, I have a problem/question. If I need to run the following:

1. Furnace (using extension cord to the Transfer Switch, neutral/ground ARE BONDED at service panel)
2. Gas water heater (using extension cord, neutral/ground are NOT bonded)
3. Fridge (using extension cord, neutral/ground are NOT bonded)

If I need to get a Pure Sine Wave Inverter for my Nissan Leaf, what should I get? If I get a bonded neutral (Inverter tied the White+Green wire internally), then I run into problem of "double bonded" for #1 which is very dangerous. However, if I get a floating neutral (Inverter doesn't tie the White+Green wire internally), then #1 furnace will be good but #2 Gas water heater and #3 Fridge may not function properly because the micro-computer may detect it's floating may refuse to start. Either way I am stuck.

Anyone into solar panels or have used Leaf to power your home, feel free to comment. I wish we have that "Nissan Vehicle to Home" system like they are having in Japan and Europe.

When using a transfer switch to power a branch circuit the utility source and bond is out of the circuit.
The only bond should be at the power source be it the inverter or generator or the utility entrance panel.

You really need 2000+ watts to power these household items and 2000 watts is too large to draw directly off the small 12v car battery. You really need a bank of 4 to 6+ large batteries as a buffer and let the vehicle charge these larger batteries.

2000W+ inverter is fine. If I understand correctly, for EV I was told that you need to start the car (Prepare to drive, put it in Park mode) and turn off all the lights, radio, AC/Heat, etc.. 2018 Leaf has the 40-kWh battery, this way it will keep charging the 12V battery while inverter will draw the DC from the 12V battery without draining. It should be able to run for couple of days depends on the load, I think that's how the "Nissan Vehicle-To-Home" in Japan/Europe system works.

riniboo said:

I think that's how the "Nissan Vehicle-To-Home" in Japan/Europe system works.

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Vehicle to home is a CHADEMO interface directly to the HV battery.

WetEV said:

Vehicle to home is a CHADEMO interface directly to the HV battery.

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Good to know... Thanks. My Bad on this one. I wish we have that in North America. Even our local utility published a white paper and they have done the testing on Nissan Vehicle to Home system. But never rolled it out...

riniboo said:

WetEV said:

Vehicle to home is a CHADEMO interface directly to the HV battery.

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Good to know... Thanks. My Bad on this one. I wish we have that in North America. Even our local utility published a white paper and they have done the testing on Nissan Vehicle to Home system. But never rolled it out...

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You can do it. Requires a transfer switch, a fairly expensive home CHADEMO unit...

http://www.princetonpower.com/images/pdfsnew/datasheets/CA10_30_SellSheet_April2016_r1.pdf

Don't they offer this in Japan?

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/vehicle_to_home.html

https://electrek.co/2017/10/04/nissan-ev-ecosystem-free-power-leaf-vehicle-to-grid/


Not sure why not available in NA?

The 12V system can only supply 1000W continuously. I bought a 1000W continuous / 2000w surge pure sine wave inverter and use it to power a few appliances (lights,fridge, TV, kettle, etc) during power outage. You really want to have some nice lower gauge cables between the inverter and the 12V battery.

hmmwv said:

The 12V system can only supply 1000W continuously. I bought a 1000W continuous / 2000w surge pure sine wave inverter and use it to power a few appliances (lights,fridge, TV, kettle, etc) during power outage. You really want to have some nice lower gauge cables between the inverter and the 12V battery.

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Good info. . . Would you mind sharing some links/names of what inverter and other equipment you purchased? THANKS!

Here is the longest and most useful thread I have found (it is older info but very useful):
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13097&hilit=pure+sine+wave+inverter
I am in the process of getting everything lined up to do this conversion myself.

Based on that thread I will be buying the following:

1. a Xantrex pure sine wave 1000w inverter
2. Some 2 Gage flexible red & black copper wire
3. 2 Gage crimp on pins for the connector below and some battery eyelets
3. a 175 Amp Anderson SB175-02-YEL connector
4. a quick disconnect handle
5. a inline 100 amp or 150 amp fuse

I think that is pretty much all I need...hope this helps you out!

hmmwv said:

The 12V system can only supply 1000W continuously. I bought a 1000W continuous / 2000w surge pure sine wave inverter and use it to power a few appliances (lights,fridge, TV, kettle, etc) during power outage. You really want to have some nice lower gauge cables between the inverter and the 12V battery.

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Where do you get the 1000 watt figure? I've read, repeatedly, that it's 1800 watts max DC-DC converter output, and that 1500 watts at the car is a safe maximum draw. Most people seem to get a 2000 watt inverter and then limit the loads to no more than 1500 watts.

I would strongly suggest a 2000 watt prosine inverter. It will start and run anything that can be plugged in a "regular" outlet. The 1000w unit is nice, smaller, but can't start some larger items, like large fridges, a small compressor or anything with a motor. If your going through that much work and expense make sure it will work for what you need and not have to upgrade later.

I am looking at only 1000w due to the fact that we have a detached garage - and a main electrical panel on said garage - but our main house sub panel is in our laundry room on the opposite side of our house. There is not a easy way to power the sub panel, or any of those circuits, from where our LEAF is parked. Based on that I am looking to only power things in our garage during an emergency or a PSPS from PG&E...and 1000w will be more than I will be able to use.

https://picclick.com/DOSTAR-EV-Charging-Plug-Level-2-220Volt-16A-362729404539.html

I picked up one of these for $75 but will not plug it into the Leaf DC port until I understand how it could work. The description does not make sense to me but if it worked it would be a nice source of some Leaf power.

Has anyone seen this concept for Leaf as a backup power source?

GaleHawkins said:

https://picclick.com/DOSTAR-EV-Charging-Plug-Level-2-220Volt-16A-362729404539.html

I picked up one of these for $75 but will not plug it into the Leaf DC port until I understand how it could work. The description does not make sense to me but if it worked it would be a nice source of some Leaf power.

Has anyone seen this concept for Leaf as a backup power source?

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As I posted in the other thread.
"From a quick look, I don't know what that is but from looking at https://www.ebay.com/itm/362729404539, that's totally useless for a US Leaf. No US Leaf has a port like that.

You can't pull power from the car via J1772. For CHAdeMO, it's going to be almost 400 volts DC. There's nothing in that handle or power strip that's going to convert that down to 120 volts AC."

I think you wasted your $.

Since the eBay listing said "Meet 62196-2 IEC 2010 SHEET 2-IIe standard" and the plug resembled Mennekes Type 2, I looked at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_62196#Contents_2 and noticed "Another similar but different design is described by the Chinese standard GB/T 20234.2. " Yes, I've seen Chinese connectors and they seem the opposite of Mennekes Type 2 in terms of gender/which side has pins.

Take a look at GB/T 20234.2-2011 AC vs. IEC 62196 Type 2 at http://www.ev-institute.com/images/Plug_World_map_v5.pdf.

It looks like someone had some useless-in-North America type 2 plugs, and some Belkin power strips, and just spliced them together. It could be a novel way to start a fire, but more likely it will do nothing whatsoever, as Cwerdna notes. Sorry.

My related response was at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=571910#p571910.

Now that I think about it more, the useless device that Gale posted might be useful for getting power out of an EVSE that has that connector or a vehicle with that port that can actually output power. I didn’t study the port carefully and don’t know much about Mennekes type 2 nor Chinese GB/T plugs for AC charging.

I quickly found this video showing the 2 connectors on Chinese-market Teslas: https://youtu.be/diSAwAVVgOs. Presumably, these are both GB/T connectors for DC and AC charging, respectively.

Now that I think about it more, the useless device that Gale posted might be useful for getting power out of an EVSE that has that connector or a vehicle with that port that can actually output power.

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That is the business end of an EVSE so I don't see how the first scenario would work. Yes, if your EV has a type 2 or Chinese similar port it may be possible to get power through it in Europe or China, but in North America it won't fit anything.

evtifosi said:

I am looking at only 1000w due to the fact that we have a detached garage - and a main electrical panel on said garage - but our main house sub panel is in our laundry room on the opposite side of our house. There is not a easy way to power the sub panel, or any of those circuits, from where our LEAF is parked. Based on that I am looking to only power things in our garage during an emergency or a PSPS from PG&E...and 1000w will be more than I will be able to use.

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I use a 2000 watt inverter and it works great. I believe having more than what you think you might need as sometimes you possibly could use more. I have even used one Leaf to emergency charge the other Leaf.

I completed this project on Saturday - just in time for a possible PSPS by PG&E Wednesday... :shock:

The only thing I did differently than the original post I found (the one I posted the the link to earlier), is that I used a Red connector since I was able to get that one quickly, versus using a Yellow (12V) connector...

Since I will be the only one using this I don't see much of an issue, and I will remove it from the car when it is sold.

Here is a quick photo showing the wiring to the battery.



I hooked it up to a power strip that has a treadmill, a wine cooler, mini under-counter fridge, and some various battery chargers attached to it as a test - everything powered without issues...