MVLeaf
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:32 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Nov 2017
Leaf Number: 315076

Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 1:02 pm

I bought a 2015 SV at the dealer at the end of last November with 720 miles on it. It had never been sold and had been used as a loaner and demo. It had all 12 bars and still did when I traded it on Monday at 3500 miles. When I used Leafspy several weeks ago, the battery had 54 Ahr, and folks here expected that it shouldn't be showing 12 bars.

I put snow tires on it because the Michelin tires were slippery in the occasional snow here on Martha's Vineyard. This winter we were very disappointed in the range - my wife is a Hospice bereavement therapist and though she never leaves the Island her day to day driving amount is unpredictable. She's stoic and mostly drove the car using the seat and steering wheel heaters, and no heat, due to range loss. I decided the Leaf just didn't work for our needs.

Recently I put the summer tires and wheels back on, and aired them up to 38 psi. And the weather finally warmed up. The range was still less than I expected. I drove it Monday up to a dealer where I traded it for a new Hyundai Ioniq PHEV. In 40 miles of driving, 75% highway at 55 mph, no lights on, no heat, no heated seats, etc., I went from completely charged to 39% charge remaining (we quickly learned to completely ignore the Guess-o-meter, but in generai it dropped 1-1/2 miles for every actual mile driven). Doing the math, that works out to about 66 miles of range. This seems pretty bad to me for non-severe weather.

By way of comparison, we have several 2017 Kia Soul EVs here at work with a rated 93 mile range (compared to the Leaf at 84 miles.) I drove the company car today to a jobsite and back, and it was warmer, say low 60Fs, but the Kia's guess-o-meter dropped about 3/4 mile per actual mile driven. I drove my new Ioniq part of the way home the say route I drove the Leaf, and it was getting more than its rated range rather than noticeably less.

So was my Leaf's performance typical? Or did I get some form of a lemon? In hindsight, I know the dealer didn't take care of the car, but even with the drop to 54 Ahr shouldn't the car have a warm weather range better than the mid-60 miles?

Thanks in advance for insights. At some point in the future, when our second car, a 2008 Honda Fit, gives up the ghost, I see us getting another BEV, because our solar PV generates a surplus, we have a $1500 credit with the utility, and I don't think we'll drive it down enough with the Ioniq. But I think that BEV will need to have a winter range of 100 miles while allowing the use of some heat :-)

magico13
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:39 pm
Location: Cleveland, OH

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 1:22 pm

That doesn't sound too unreasonable in terms of range to me. I drive mostly highway and on the best days my estimates would be about 70 miles for 100 to 0%. I drive 37 miles each day and end up with anywhere between 20% and 50% remaining based on weather with 90 to 95% SOH on my 2015 SV.
2015 SV w/ QC

MVLeaf
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:32 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Nov 2017
Leaf Number: 315076

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 2:03 pm

Thank you for your reply, Magico13. You have the same year and model as I did, and similar SOH, so that helps validate my experience (and my decision that this car wouldn't work well for us).

alozzy
Posts: 1109
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 2:43 pm

A 24 kWh pack starts with about 64 - 66 Ahr, so a 54 Ahr is roughly a 84% decline. So, 70 miles range at 50 mph, on a highway with little elevation change, is a good estimate. If you were doing mostly highway miles at >60 mph then less range would also be expected.

Keep in mind that the IONIQ is more efficient at highway speeds, thanks to a very low co-efficient of drag (CoD). It also has a slightly bigger pack.

The LEAF isn't a great choice if you do mostly highway driving at 70 mph and commute more than 50 miles in a day.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

jjeff
Posts: 1700
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:10 am
Delivery Date: 13 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 422121
Location: MSP MN

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 3:11 pm

alozzy wrote:
The LEAF isn't a great choice if you do mostly highway driving at 70 mph and commute more than 50 miles in a day.

I would feel comfortable with a 60 mile commute @ 70 mph, but not in the cold winter, I'd agree 50 would be a better winter baseline, even less with much heat use or snowy/wind conditions, under those conditions 40 miles or even less isn't unheard of :cry:
If it were available to me and was roomy enough, I'd love to get a Ioniq BEV
2012 SL purchased used 2/'16
2013 S w/QC purchased new
Juicebox Premium 60a L1/L2 EVSE, Ebusbar 16a L1/L2 EVSE
'12 EVSEupgrade'd 20a L1/L2 EVSE, '13 EVSEupgrade'd adjustable 6-20a L2, 6-13a L1 EVSE
Zencar 13, 20, 30a L1/L2 portable EVSE
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MVLeaf
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:32 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Nov 2017
Leaf Number: 315076

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 4:47 pm

Thanks folks!
I should clarify, I traded for the Ioniq Plug-in Hybrid, not the Ioniq Electric. It's rated at 29 miles on electric-only. The example I gave of the Leaf while highway driving was unique for us - we live on an island where the highest speed limit is 45 mph. But even so, the winter range was far below what seemed to work. The Ioniq PHEV lets us go mostly electric without worrying about range or freezing :-) and it will become our "leave the island car" as well. At some point our 10 year old Honda Fit will need replacing (although it's likely to now get only about 1-2,000 miles/year, and with 103,000 miles on it now, it may go for years!) and then we'll look again at a pure BEV.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9379
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 5:33 pm

A 24 kWh pack starts with about 64 - 66 Ahr, so a 54 Ahr is roughly a 84% decline.


I believe he meant a 16% decline, with 84% remaining.

66 mile range with no heat in 40ish weather isn't great, but it is normal for a car with 11 actual bars remaining. You got snared by the trap Nissan set when they set loss of the 12th (1st to go) capacity bar at 84-85%. This is why LeafSpy helps a lot in most cases. Would you have been good with 65 miles of range with moderate heat?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

MVLeaf
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:32 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Nov 2017
Leaf Number: 315076

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 7:49 pm

Probably would have been good with 65 miles with moderate heat, as you put it, but we usually keep cars a long time, and I was thinking this was only going to get worse, and the value of the car would drop. It's hard to get much $ off on the Ioniq PHEV, it's pretty new, but the Hyundai dealer gave me a really good trade so I jumped.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9379
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 9:12 pm

In your climate you'll be happier with the Ioniq. Do take steps to avoid charging the battery when it's Hot, though, as Hyundai/Kia are also having issues with declining battery capacity. At least with a PHEV it won't matter as much.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

smkettner
Posts: 7190
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:13 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Feb 2014
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: Traded my Leaf; was it a lemon?

Thu May 03, 2018 9:22 pm

Nissan mile is only about 4,000 feet. I call normal compared to my LEAF.

As you found with others, I found with my RAV4-EV that when the meter says 85 miles and you drive 75 miles you still have 10 to 15 showing. Not even close with my LEAF.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
2 bar lost at 35,339 miles, 25 months.
LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
I-Pace on order for end of 2018 delivery

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