edatoakrun
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Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 6:34 am

Lothsahn wrote:I just called Nissan about a replacement battery because my 2011 Nissan leaf is down to 8 bars and I only get about 35 miles on a charge. I was informed that the battery replacement cost is now $7000 plus labor and taxes (up from $5499). This means replacement costs are around $8500. ...
I just called Nissan's EV #, and what I was told that :

1) The pack price has increased from $6,500 to 7,500.

2) The not really-a-core-charge (the mandatory return allowance) decreased from $1,500 to $1,000.

Since the second statement clearly seems wrong, I think you will need to get a written estimate from a dealer to find the true cost, and end the confusion.

In the past, many have reported discounts quoted from list price, but I have no idea if any dealers ever have come through with lower-than-list prices.
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
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Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 7:16 am

webb14leafs wrote:The price of the replacement battery is approaching $300/kWh (before labor). That's absurd.

Over $300 a kWh
Not including installation costs

For another POS battery that lasts ~ 5 years or 60k miles
About $130 a month instead of sending the car to the junkyard. That does not sound terrible, just not great for a local only car.
Or about 13 cents a mile to keep running the car. Again, not terrible but not great.

The real pain was to whomever paid the new car price, and the negative comments about the replacement cost mostly reflect acknowledgement that they are not getting a break after paying so much up front.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

jake14mw
Posts: 170
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:53 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Nov 2017
Location: Connecticut, USA

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 8:59 am

This is extremely disappointing news. This simply means that Nissan does not want to supply replacement batteries for Nissan Leafs. It would make absolutely no sense for someone to replace a battery on a Leaf which has battery problems. I just looked up the KBB value of a 2012 SV. $6,736. Six to seven year old cars should not be disposable.

What a shame. I bought a 2014 SL 6 months ago. You could almost think the car is new. Seems very well built, no rattles or issues. I love it. The thought that just 4 years from now, the car might not be usable and not able to be economically fixed is disturbing.

I think this is a HUGE issue for Nissan. It seems that battery degradation is not an issue for Tesla or GM. So, this means that if you buy a Tesla, or a Bolt, you should be confident that the battery will not degrade too much for maybe 10-15 years? Based on Nissan's track record, it seems that you should expect that your battery will be significantly degraded within 5-7 years, and can plan that the car will not have a usable life beyond 10 years? It seems that the 30kwh batteries from the 2016 and 2017 models are actually showing WORSE degredation than the older ones, and I have not seen assurances that the 2018 batteries have changed significantly. This would PREVENT me from buying a 2018 Leaf, or recommending it to people I know.

Part of the value of buying a car is the potential resale value. Resale values for 2011-2017 Leafs are terrible for two reasons: 1) the funky looks, and 2) range and battery degredation. With the range and battery issues being a huge factor. If I buy a 2018 Bolt today with 238 miles of range, if I plan on selling it in 4 years, it will probably have about 220 miles of range probably? If I buy a 2018 Leaf today with 150 miles of range, after 4 years what will the range be? 120 miles? So, if I spend $38,000 on Bolt, maybe the value in 4 years is $20,000? And if I spend $34,000 on a Leaf, maybe the value in 4 years is $13,000?

Bad batteries make the value of New and used Leafs terrible.

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Nubo
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Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 9:44 am

SageBrush wrote:
webb14leafs wrote:The price of the replacement battery is approaching $300/kWh (before labor). That's absurd.

Over $300 a kWh
Not including installation costs

For another POS battery that lasts ~ 5 years or 60k miles
About $130 a month instead of sending the car to the junkyard. That does not sound terrible, just not great for a local only car.
Or about 13 cents a mile to keep running the car. Again, not terrible but not great.

The real pain was to whomever paid the new car price, and the negative comments about the replacement cost mostly reflect acknowledgement that they are not getting a break after paying so much up front.


True this is the early-adopter premium on display. This kinda' crap will not fly once EVs become mainstream. But it's also true that there's no reason in the world why Nissan couldn't have generalized the vehicle controller to accept 24, 30, 40 kWH and beyond, and kept the connectors compatible between model years. Should have been one of the items on the cocktail napkin.
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

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jlv
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Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 10:13 am

Nubo wrote:But it's also true that there's no reason in the world why Nissan couldn't have generalized the vehicle controller to accept 24, 30, 40 kWH and beyond, and kept the connectors compatible between model years. Should have been one of the items on the cocktail napkin.
There's exactly one reason: Nissan is in the business of building and selling new cars.

They really don't want to help us refurbish and enhance our used LEAFs. I think it would have been incredible had they made 40kWh packs available for old LEAFs - they'd really show their support for EVs as a forward-looking purchase. But doing so just cuts into new car sales, and that's probably all they really care about.

(my 4 year old 2013 is still pristine on the inside and (mostly) outside, and continues to drive and handle flawlessly. it is really a well-built car)
'13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17) 33K miTesla S 75D (3/17) 27K mi
3 reservation canceled; X on order.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 11:40 am

jlv wrote:...There's exactly one reason: Nissan is in the business of building and selling new cars.

They really don't want to help us refurbish and enhance our used LEAFs. I think it would have been incredible had they made 40kWh packs available for old LEAFs - they'd really show their support for EVs as a forward-looking purchase. But doing so just cuts into new car sales, and that's probably all they really care about.

(my 4 year old 2013 is still pristine on the inside and (mostly) outside, and continues to drive and handle flawlessly. it is really a well-built car)

And so is my eight-capacity-bar 2011, and I expect somebody to be driving it for many years to come.

I can't get too worked up about the ~$1,000 (?) price hike for a pack trade, since I wasn't planning on it anyway.

Seriously, how many would pay Nissan even $5 k for the pack swap, if all you got was back up to ~21.6 available kWh?

How many 2011-12 owners would, knowing the same pack would give you considerably more range, in the more efficient 2013-16 "24 kWh" LEAFS?

I still hope an aftermarket product enters the market, but to sell in quantity, it will need to be either higher capacity, or much lower price, than what Nissan offers.

The market problem, of course, is that $7,500 FTC essentially more than pays the manufacturing cost for 24 kWh's worth of new batteries, if a qualified buyer agrees to take the rest of the new BEV with it.

It's always hard to get buyers to pay for something, that somebody else is willing to pay you to take...

By the time my LEAF pack hit's 10 years old (and the FTC expires) it will still probably do 45 or 50 miles, right lane on the freeway, and much more distance at lower speeds, and still be a very good student or grampa car, unless something expensive other than the pack fails before then.

At which point, the OE pack will probably be the most valuable item to part-out...
no condition is permanent

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: Colorado

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 2:27 pm

edatoakrun wrote:I can't get too worked up about the ~$1,000 (?) price hike for a pack trade ....


Hmm ... I count $1500
edatoakrun wrote:1) The pack price has increased from $6,500 to 7,500.
2) The not really-a-core-charge (the mandatory return allowance) decreased from $1,500 to $1,000.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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walterbays
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Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 2:45 pm

It's unfortunate that the company which did more than anyone to bring about mass market EV's will not have much of a role in that market. A brand new LEAF, disposable after a few years, makes little sense. A used LEAF with reasonably good battery could be a good deal, but only so long as someone else keeps buying new LEAFs to sell used. Maybe the economics of leasing a LEAF still make sense, but if so I can't understand why Nissan would set its lease prices and residuals in favor of customers while setting punitive maintenance prices for owners.

I guessed this was coming a couple of years ago when Nissan declined to offer a true (pro rata) warranty on their supposedly improved battery, indicating that they still had no confidence in their design. All I could recommend to friends now is to buy a brand with active battery cooling, which is to say almost anything except Nissan.

PS - My LEAF is great and I'll enjoy it until it reaches its expiration date. I just wish the pioneer would stay in the game.

SageBrush
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Location: Colorado

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 3:09 pm

walterbays wrote:PS - My LEAF is great and I'll enjoy it until it reaches its expiration date. I just wish the pioneer would stay in the game.

Sale of the battery factory told the tale.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

bartable
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri May 25, 2018 3:19 pm
Delivery Date: 25 May 2018

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Tue May 29, 2018 4:41 pm

Great discussion here on the long term value of the Leaf. Our family had leased a 2013 Leaf and then had to return it early when we moved down to the Bay Area from Canada. Now after paying close to $4/gallon for our SUV we’re looking at a used Leaf as our around town car.

But what to do? I was originally looking for a 2013-2014 Leaf with <40K miles on it for around $9,500. But what will that car be worth in 3 year and 25K miles from now? I’m nervous it could be worh next to nothing if the battery can only do ~40 miles at a time.

Now I’m considering paying a bit more ($12-$13K for a 2015 with less than 20K miles) in the hope I can sell it for $9k in 3 years.

I’m not sure which is the best strategy or if we should buy a Leaf at all. But we really fell in love with our first Leaf and would love to have that EV experience again.

Sorry to hijack the thread but this exact topic is one I had been turning over in my head.

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