cwerdna
Posts: 9285
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 4:18 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote: The VCM is the onboard charging control module. It also controls other drivetrain components. This is the topic (Thanks for the name of the guy, Lothsahn!) in question. It starts off as speculation, but eventually gets real:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=27600

FWIW, the OP of that thread didn't refer to the VCM, used the wrong units and hasn't been back since Jan 20, 2019.


http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=nissan+leaf+VCM

I'm referring to Inventor71's single post. Does he refer to VCM?

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: Colorado

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 6:48 am

LeftieBiker wrote:Both the 30kwh and 40kwh packs use modules that are physically different from any of the 24kwh packs, so once you figure out how to install the modules and connect them to a CANBUS adapter and the car's high voltage cables, they don't differ that much from each other. The only setup so far that provides 40kwh of usable capacity to a formerly 24kwh Leaf is one that uses ALL of the battery-related electronics from the 40kwh car. That's my understanding, anyway.

What is involved in getting 24 kWh of usable capacity from a donor 40 kWh pack used in a 24 kWh LEAF ?
Alternatively, same question using a donor 30 kWh pack. I think I am hearing that the electronic guts of the 24 kWh pack replace those present in the 30 kWh pack and then the hybrid 30 kWh pack is installed in the 24 kWh LEAF. Is this anywhere near correct ?

Your earlier post makes it sound like 40 kWh pack donors into 30 kWh LEAFs is an easier path.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

ydrape
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:50 am
Delivery Date: 11 May 2017
Leaf Number: 329614
Location: Montréal, Qc

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 7:46 am

Upgrade a LEAF 2012 with battery 2018 40kwh. Someone here has do that!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MaLEAFu ... 696423683/
2015 SL Leaf made 03/2015
purchased used May 2017; 12/12 bars
Sts Bat: aHR = 58, SOH = 93% Hx = 89%

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13847
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 7:50 am

SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:but worst case seems to be a 'super 24kwh' pack with reserve capacity that gets used as it degrades.

That is a guess on your part. If true then the range will be that of a 30 kWh battery even if the range meter only accounts for the first 24 kWh.

Seems easy enough to check. It would also be easy to use since the actual range would be ~ 1.25x of displayed.


No extra range. There is a slight voltage difference that "may" account for part of the issue but right now you simply end up with a more robust 24 kwh pack.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4105
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: Colorado

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 8:19 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:but worst case seems to be a 'super 24kwh' pack with reserve capacity that gets used as it degrades.

That is a guess on your part. If true then the range will be that of a 30 kWh battery even if the range meter only accounts for the first 24 kWh.

Seems easy enough to check. It would also be easy to use since the actual range would be ~ 1.25x of displayed.


No extra range. There is a slight voltage difference that "may" account for part of the issue but right now you simply end up with a more robust 24 kwh pack.

Yep -- Leftie convinced me although his phrasing is misleading. It is not a case that unused modules come into play as the first 24 kWh degrades but rather that a 40 kWh pack still has 24 kWh of usable capacity even after significant (40%) degradation. Since 24 kWh is the usable maximum it gives the appearance of a reserve keeping the pack at 24 kWh for a decade or so in non-hot climates.

If I can buy that kind of pack in the next couple of years installed for under $5k I'll be one happy camper indeed.
Last edited by SageBrush on Thu May 02, 2019 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13847
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 8:30 am

ydrape wrote:Upgrade a LEAF 2012 with battery 2018 40kwh. Someone here has do that!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MaLEAFu ... 696423683/


Yeah saw that. Interesting but lacking details and a first satisfied customer.

This is all predicated on getting a wrecked 40 kwh LEAF you know, right?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13847
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 8:34 am

SageBrush wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:That is a guess on your part. If true then the range will be that of a 30 kWh battery even if the range meter only accounts for the first 24 kWh.

Seems easy enough to check. It would also be easy to use since the actual range would be ~ 1.25x of displayed.


No extra range. There is a slight voltage difference that "may" account for part of the issue but right now you simply end up with a more robust 24 kwh pack.

Yep -- Leftie convinced me although his phrasing is misleading. It is not a case that unused modules come into play as the first 24 kWh degrades but rather that a 40 kWh pack still has 24 kWh of usable capacity even after significant (40%) degradation. Since 24 kWh is the usable maximum it gives the appearance of a reserve keeping the pack at 24 kWh for a decade or so in non-hot climates.

If I can buy that kind of pack in the next couple of years installed for under $5k I'll be one happy camper indeed.


I think in that time frame the current cell supply restriction will be eased and we will have a load of 3rd party options available. As far as price point; I also think it will not be based on cell costs but more market forces and if gas prices rise, expect battery options to rise as well.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ydrape
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:50 am
Delivery Date: 11 May 2017
Leaf Number: 329614
Location: Montréal, Qc

Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 8:51 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
ydrape wrote:Upgrade a LEAF 2012 with battery 2018 40kwh. Someone here has do that!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MaLEAFu ... 696423683/


Yeah saw that. Interesting but lacking details and a first satisfied customer.

This is all predicated on getting a wrecked 40 kwh LEAF you know, right?


Yes, I know.

Véhicules électriques Simon André is a serious business. Time will tell about this topic!

https://ve.simonandre.ca/
2015 SL Leaf made 03/2015
purchased used May 2017; 12/12 bars
Sts Bat: aHR = 58, SOH = 93% Hx = 89%

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 12:31 pm

Yep -- Leftie convinced me although his phrasing is misleading. It is not a case that unused modules come into play as the first 24 kWh degrades but rather that a 40 kWh pack still has 24 kWh of usable capacity even after significant (40%) degradation.


I didn't write anything about "unused modules"! That would be silly indeed. What I meant (and, I believe, wrote) is what you wrote above - except I didn't specify a percentage of reserve because that isn't yet known. Sheesh.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Warning: Battery Replacement Cost Increase (now $8500)

Thu May 02, 2019 12:38 pm

cwerdna wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
cwerdna wrote:FWIW, the OP of that thread didn't refer to the VCM, used the wrong units and hasn't been back since Jan 20, 2019.


http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=nissan+leaf+VCM

I'm referring to Inventor71's single post. Does he refer to VCM?


He talks about changing CANBUS communications, and while this isn't my area of expertise, I believe that the VCM is involved with that, along with every other computerized system in the car. Now, why does it matter, exactly...? I wrote that the topic "starts off as speculation, but eventually gets real". That is exactly what happened. Your obsession with units of measure is generally fine, BTW, but when you start using it to judge people, you are wandering too far afield. It's not unlike me calling newscritters "idiots" for using the fake telegraph-y language that is in vogue. They are really just sheep, of course, not idiots. ;)
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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