Electric Charge Cost

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jborchel

New member
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
4
I am considering buying or leasing a 2018 Leaf. I know what my current monthly gasoline cost is. I drive about 15,000 miles per year. Can anyone tell me their experience with their electricity bill after owning a Leaf. Was the monthly increase less than your former gas bill? If so, how much.

Is there an generally accepted cost per gallon comparison at a charging station with a typical gasoline car similar to the Leaf? Currently for my Buick compact 4 cylinder I pay about $3.70/gallon for about 23 mpg.

Also, I've read that it is best to only charge your Leaf to 80% on a regular basis. Can this be programmed so that when you charge overnight it will not exceed 80%?
 
jborchel said:
Can anyone tell me their experience with their electricity bill after owning a Leaf. Was the monthly increase less than your former gas bill? If so, how much.
What someone tells you may not apply to you at all. We could be off by a factor of 4 or more on the former.

Can you please point us to the rate schedule for your electric provider and what tiers you typically hit (if on a tiered plan)? Can you also provide us a typical month in terms of usage in kWh and the total cost for the electric portion?

For example, someone on E-1 in PG&E land (page 1 of https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf) will certainly get pushed into tier 3 by that kind of usage and charging at home exclusively. Some or all of that EV charging while on that plan would be 40.337 cents/kWh. If one assumes 3.5 miles/kWh (coming out of the wall, to help account for charging losses), it's about 11.52 cents/mile at that crazy high rate.

In comparison, these two places have cheap electricity:
http://www.seattle.gov/light/Rates/
http://www.siliconvalleypower.com/for-residents/rates - city of Santa Clara, CA only

PG&E serves much/most (?) of Nor Cal but not Santa Clara! I am in PG&E-land. :(

$3.70 / 23 = ~16 cents mile

(For comparison, my 06 Prius, I can average typically 44 to 50 mpg... I need to be doing mostly longer drives and keeping my speed below 70 mph to get 50 mpg on tank. $3.70 / 44 = ~8.4 cents/mile.)

My electric bill has gone up almost 0 because almost all of my charging is done for free at work. I also often use free level 2 charging on weekends. It's about 5 miles from home and on the way home from work and many places. Very little of my charging in a given year is done at home. I'd guess less than 100 kWh in a whole year.
jborchel said:
I am considering buying or leasing a 2018 Leaf.
Can this be programmed so that when you charge overnight it will not exceed 80%?
Not on the car side. The feature on the car to limit charging to 80% was removed from US models starting with model year 2014.
 
The electric rate plan really makes a difference. Give us your electric rate information and we can give more accurate answers. Almost all of my charging is at home off peak. I am averaging 1,500 miles per month and the car adds somewhere between $30 and $45 per month depending upon how I allocate portions of the taxes and basic service charges on the bill. It was toward the low end until this spring when the utility changed the rate structure of the time-of-use with peak demand charge plan that I am on. It is now toward the high end, but still much cheaper than driving my other vehicles for commuting. My 52-mile round trip commute (26 each way) takes about 16 kWh if charging at 6 kW rate, a little more if charging at a slower rate.

Don't worry about charging to 100 percent, just don't leave the car parked for extended time at high charge levels.
 
As others stated, it depends on your electric rate.

Here I pay about 10 cents/KWH. Looking at actual electric usage and the inefficiency of the Charger my measured electric usage equates to about 2.4 cents/mile or $24/mo for each 1000 miles driven.

Florida Power and Light has a very nice online site where you can review and chart your monthly, daily or hourly electric usage by either kWh or cents.

You can see in my chart below, Last Saturday the charger started at 4am till 7am. It cost about $2.20 to recharge the batteries for the 90 miles of driving I did the days before charging.

You can also see where my poolpump and heater came on from 10am-2pm. It cost me about $1.30 that day to run the pool pump and pool heater.

The total cost for electric usage that day was $6.51. Break down is $2.20 to charge the Leaf, $1.30 for pool and remaining $3.01 for central air conditioner, hot water heater, lights, cooking, tv, fans, etc

9wwGWy4l.jpg




Here’s my electric usage by the month for the last year. This is a 3000 sq ft house in a Florida with a pool and a 5 ton, high efficiency air conditioner. We we not Home much March, April and May so usage those months was low.

H1OFAh8l.jpg
 
Thank you so much to everybody for those very complete replies. It's obvious that the cost of electrical charging at home is far less than I am paying for gasoline currently. My monthly cost averaged $139 for gas over the year I have owned the Buick compact and I'm guessing that mt cost for the 2018 Leaf will be around $50/month or less. I drove a demo yesterday and the salesman said that PG&E has a nighttime rate for charging EVs so that would help also. I need to call PG&E as I live in Sacramento and we have summertime heat that pushes me into higher tiers during July, August and September. But right now it looks good from here.

Maybe my most important issue though was my experience in the demo drive. For the past year we have been babysitting two of our daughter's small kids once a quarter while she travels for her job. She owns a 2015 or 2016 Leaf so I have been driving it twice a day each time we visit. This is when I fell in love with the experience. However, there was a difference with her car and the demo that concerns me. Although the 2018 ride is much, much improved, the 2018 seems much lighter and less substantial to the older Leaf. I checked the web and the 2018 weighs at least 100 pounds more but it didn't feel that way. I like the heavier feel. The demo was the cheapest model. If I step up a grade or two will I get a different(hopefully heavier) feel or has Nissan made features the only difference? I know this seems like a stupid question but I have learned over the years that these little things come back to haunt.
 
^^^
https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/electric-vehicle-base-plan/electric-vehicle-base-plan.page has the current rate choices. Some of the plans with cheap nighttime electricity will kill you in the day and in some cases, many of a typical person's waking hours.

If you were on E-1 and all your electricity used to charge the Leaf were in the highest tier of over 40 cents/kWh, then the 1250 miles / 3.5 miles/kWh = ~357 kWh. 357 kWh * $0.40/kWh = ~$143. That'd be your marginal cost of charging that Leaf.

What's your baseline territory (https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/save-energy-money/help-paying-your-bill/longer-term-assistance/medical-condition-related/medical-baseline-allowance/understanding-baseline-quantities.page#baselineamount)? Do you have nat gas heating or is your place all electric only?
 
I have not yet driven a 2018, but since the weight is slightly higher it should not feel less substantial. I suspect the demo had its tires inflated to Nissan's recommended pressure. My experience with 2011 (16-inch wheels) and 2015 (17-inch wheels) is that the cars feel much more stable with tires inflated to 44 psi. It is likely that your daughter's car has the tires inflated higher than the demo.
 
You can see your baseline at an URL I already posted and it should be on your bill, for your plan.

Rate schedules:
E-1 - already given
EV-A and EV-B https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV (Sch).pdf - pages 1, 3 and 4
ETOU-A and B: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU.pdf - pages 2, 4 - 6
E-TOU-C3: https://www.pge.com/tariffs/assets/pdf/tariffbook/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-TOU-C3.pdf - pages 2 and 4 - This sounds like E-TOU-C at https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/rate-plans/rate-plan-options/electric-vehicle-base-plan/electric-vehicle-base-plan.page "Time-of-Use (Peak Pricing 4 - 9 p.m. Every Day)". This is new to me. It is not a choice for me when I visit https://pge.opower.com/ei/x/rate-comparison and compare all rate plans.

I'm on E-6 (https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf), which is closed to new customers.
 
Flyct said:
As others stated, it depends on your electric rate.

Here I pay about 10 cents/KWH. Looking at actual electric usage and the inefficiency of the Charger my measured electric usage equates to about 2.4 cents/mile or $24/mo for each 1000 miles driven.
...

Here’s my electric usage by the month for the last year. This is a 3000 sq ft house in a Florida with a pool and a 5 ton, high efficiency air conditioner. We we not Home much March, April and May so usage those months was low.

H1OFAh8l.jpg
I could only dream of electricity that cheap in Pacific Gouge & Extort land. I already posted my E-6 schedule.

If one were on E-1 (page 1 of https://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_E-1.pdf) which isn't TOU and had my summer baseline of 10.1 kWh/day (Area X, "basic electric" of https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/save-energy-money/help-paying-your-bill/longer-term-assistance/medical-condition-related/medical-baseline-allowance/understanding-baseline-quantities.page), 1561 kWh in a month would be insane. 10.1 kWh/day baseline = 303 kWh/month for a 30 day "summer" month.

If I did my math right, 1561 kWh in a summer month on E-1 would be just shy of $454.

Here's my past year's electricity costs.
b0k0SyV.png
 
I think the easiest comparison method is the number of miles you can drive per dollar spent....

To calculate that for an EV, take your average efficiency and divide that by your cost per kWh. For a LEAF, efficiency varies based on conditions, tires, and the driver's habits but 4 miles / kWh is fairly easy to average.

Number of miles per dollar:

4 miles per kWh / $0.12 per kWh = 33 miles / $

It won't be exact, but close enough for a relative comparison...

You mentioned that for your "Buick compact 4 cylinder, I pay about $3.70/gallon for about 23 mpg"

23 mpg / $3.75 per gallon = 6.1 miles / $

So, depending on the cost of your electricity, a LEAF will take you roughly 5 times further, per dollar spent, compared to your Buick.
 
jborchel said:
Although the 2018 ride is much, much improved, the 2018 seems much lighter and less substantial to the older Leaf. I checked the web and the 2018 weighs at least 100 pounds more but it didn't feel that way. I like the heavier feel. The demo was the cheapest model. If I step up a grade or two will I get a different(hopefully heavier) feel or has Nissan made features the only difference? .

Our current 2018 Leaf SV feels a lot lighter than our previous 2015.

I think this is because the power steering makes steering feel lighter. Additionally acceleration is much peppier due to more torque. So between lighter steering feel and better acceleration it’s more nimble. I really like it better than our 2015.
 
alozzy said:
I think the easiest comparison method is the number of miles you can drive per dollar spent....

To calculate that for an EV, take your average efficiency and divide that by your cost per kWh. For a LEAF, efficiency varies based on conditions, tires, and the driver's habits but 4 miles / kWh is fairly easy to average.

Number of miles per dollar:

4 miles per kWh / $0.12 per kWh = 33 miles / $

It won't be exact, but close enough for a relative comparison...

You mentioned that for your "Buick compact 4 cylinder, I pay about $3.70/gallon for about 23 mpg"

23 mpg / $3.75 per gallon = 6.1 miles / $

So, depending on the cost of your electricity, a LEAF will take you roughly 5 times further, per dollar spent, compared to your Buick.

Or 3 cents/ mile vs 16 cents/ mile.
 
alozzy said:
I think the easiest comparison method is the number of miles you can drive per dollar spent....

To calculate that for an EV, take your average efficiency and divide that by your cost per kWh. For a LEAF, efficiency varies based on conditions, tires, and the driver's habits but 4 miles / kWh is fairly easy to average.

Number of miles per dollar:

4 miles per kWh / $0.12 per kWh = 33 miles / $

It won't be exact, but close enough for a relative comparison...

You mentioned that for your "Buick compact 4 cylinder, I pay about $3.70/gallon for about 23 mpg"

23 mpg / $3.75 per gallon = 6.1 miles / $

So, depending on the cost of your electricity, a LEAF will take you roughly 5 times further, per dollar spent, compared to your Buick.
4 miles / kWh out of the wall is not realistic unless one drives quite slow (no highway driving) and charges at 240 volts and not 120. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=4295. There are also charging losses which are much worse at 120 volts.

Dash display and Tony's range chart don't take into account charging losses and overhead. I certainly do not average 4 miles/kWh (per dash display) in my typical driving, but I don't drive for efficiency, in most cases.

We learned that the OP is in PG&E-land. 12 cents/kWh is not realistic at all for us, unless you opt for a plan that kills you during all other hours. See my earlier posts.

$3.70/gal is on currently the high side for Sacramento. See https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPrices/California/Sacramento and https://www.gasbuddy.com/home?search=sacramento&fuel=1. The latter currently says the lowest is $2.98/gal and the average is $3.56/gal.
 
You've completely missed the point. I was giving him a methodology for comparing "fuel" costs between an EV and an ICE. The numbers are irrelevant in my examples, of course the OP has to adjust to his own use case.
 
If I may pitch a suggestion, check with your local power company for rebates or power plans for electric cars.

When I moved into my first home, my electric company just started a pilot power plan for electric owners and offered $10k off on brand new LEAFs.

I was able to use the rebate to switch from my '15 lease to a '17 model with the rebate plus using the 7500 federal and plus more in state taxes to get the car even cheaper.

As for the power plan, the new pilot power plan was a time of day based. 3.3cents per kWh off peak times, and 36 cents on peak times per kWh. The peak times are 3pm to 8pm weekdays. Holidays and all other times are off-peak.

I was paying about $120 per month for electricity with my car but now I am paying about $40 a month with the new power plan.

I drive about 80 miles a day and I used to be paying about $80 a month in gas back in 2015 and now my LEAF is only $12 a month today.

It is nice to not have to pay so much in gas and also dont have to pay for "gas" on the spot but a month later when the bill comes in.
 
Beefjerkie said:
If I may pitch a suggestion, check with your local power company for rebates or power plans for electric cars.

When I moved into my first home, my electric company just started a pilot power plan for electric owners and offered $10k off on brand new LEAFs.

I was able to use the rebate to switch from my '15 lease to a '17 model with the rebate plus using the 7500 federal and plus more in state taxes to get the car even cheaper.

As for the power plan, the new pilot power plan was a time of day based. 3.3cents per kWh off peak times, and 36 cents on peak times per kWh. The peak times are 3pm to 8pm weekdays. Holidays and all other times are off-peak.
I already posted them. See the EV plans at http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=531569#p531569. Our rates are WAY higher than yours. Per PG&E's comparison tool, the only cheaper plan for my usage would be E-6 Smart. All those EV plans, ETOU-A and B, etc. are worse for me.

There is a 1 time https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/solar-and-vehicles/options/clean-vehicles/electric/clean-fuel-rebate-for-electric-vehicles.page you can get. There is also https://www.pge.com/en/about/newsroom/newsdetails/index.page?title=20180424_pge_customers_eligible_to_save_3000_on_a_new_nissan_leaf_electric_vehicle.
 
Found this in one of the links in the last post:

"Committed to increasing adoption of clean vehicles in the state, PG&E continues its efforts to make it easier for customers to make the switch to EVs. On PG&E's residential EV rate plans, customers pay the equivalent of $1.20 per gallon to charge their vehicle overnight."

I rechecked my current gas price and it's more like $2.49/gallon. The quote above then says my bill for fuel every month would be about 1/2 what I pay now, not 1/5 to 1/4 as outlined in some posts.

Did stumble across a plus in favor of change. Another thread suggest dedicated 120V line for overnight charging. These Del Webb homes have a dedicated golf cart charging plug. So that's good I think. Is there a way to know if a line is actually dedicated through some type of instrument?
 
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