In the market for a used Leaf.

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krush40

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
47
Location
Southern California
This forum is full of lots of great information, so before I get into my question, I wanted to thank everyone for the great information!

I'm in the market for a different car option. I have a 2016 Mazda CX5 that was initially purchased to be our family vehicle, but my wife has since gotten a Toyota Sienna, and now my car only goes to work and back (about 20 miles round trip in mostly rush hour freeway traffic; typically 30-45 min each way). The plan is to get rid of the Mazda (and it's payment) and replace it with something that will get me to work and back for the next 5 or so years and not cost a lot along the way while we eventually reevaluate our needs.

The idea of a Leaf is intriguing for a variety of reasons including eliminating gas bill, most maintenance costs (oil changes, etc), and I believe can help with our home electric bill due to different billing styles involving EV through the power company.

Anyways, all of the above has led me to looking at used Leafs, but now I need your advice.

If the price was the same and both had the same amount of bars, would you prefer:

• 2015 with over 80k miles
• 2013 with 45k miles
• Keep looking


I know the 2015 has a "better" battery, but also a lot more miles. What is the more important factor in judging a Leaf: age or mileage?

Thank you for you advice!
 
A few thoughts:

- I'd use Leaf Spy to find out the battery's actual stats. What looks like 11 bars could be nearly 12 or nearly 10.
- If the batteries' stats were similar, I'd personally probably go with the 2015.
- If the 2013 was manufactured before March, I'd give it a pass, since I believe 2013's made in Jan-March of 2013 did not have the better thermal management system. (I got one made in 2/2013 before discovering this, oops.)
- It also depends on your climate, the car's range, and how much you drive. Remember that as time goes on, range gradually shrinks, so it's better to get a good bit more than you need right now.
- If you wait until the 2019 Leafs come out (end of this year, maybe?), you might get an even better deal. Or possibly used Leaf prices will go up. Hard to be sure.

Good luck.
 
Once I get to the point of purchase I will definitely look into Leaf Spy. In my younger years I worked in car audio install so I have a higher knowledge about cars/electronics that the average person, but the idea of an EV in general is still new to me.

My commute is roughly 12 miles each way with an errand or two at lunch every once in a while. So in theory, a car that started with a range around 80 and is probably down to about 60 would give me 35-40 miles a day outside of my normal commute. I assume that will drop over time as well, but in theory could be offset by more chargers being available in public places. My wife has an identical commute, so in pinch we could always switch if I needed more range on a given day.

I guess the next question would be about replacing the battery in a few years if/when the range gets to be an issue. I've seen conflicting info all over the internet, but it appears to cost about $8,000 to replace the battery these days, right? And I assume that would be "modern technology" but the same capacity?
 
12 mile commute makes it very easy if you only want to use the car for commuting. A lot depends on your climate though as the heater on some models takes quite a bit of power. Climate also affects the longevity of the battery quite a bit so knowing where you live will help a lot on the advice you get.

Current replacement batteries from Nissan are roughly $8k. For that you will get the latest battery chemistry but the same capacity that the car originally came with. There may be DIY extender packs available soon or maybe even 3rd party replacement battery packs available at some point in the future but like Yogi says, 'It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future.'

There are quite a few feature differences between the various models and years. The models AFAIK have stayed constant with the S, SV and SL models. On top of that, there are variations between the years. I would try to test drive as many available models and years that you can to see if any of the options really matter to you.

I would highly recommend getting LeafSpy (it's about a $20 investment) to get a better idea of the battery health of any car you look at.
 
I'm in Orange County, CA near Disneyland. At work I park under a building out of the sun. At home I currently park in the driveway, but can be in the garage for charging if I end up with a Leaf.

I've pretty much decided I'm not interested in anything prior to 2013 due to battery chemistry and I'm pretty sure I don't want an S due to some of the feature upgrades I've read about on here like different heater, etc.
 
Two clarifications on the 2013: the better battery chemistry began in April 2013 builds, and 45k miles isn't really "low" for a Leaf - it's still a little bit high. (By the same token, 80K miles is definitely high for a 2015.) Also, the 2015 will still have some remaining powertrain warranty, and the 2013 won't. If the 2013 is an SV or SL, it will have lots of features, plus the 80% charge limiter. Given all that, and taking into account that the 2013 should have enough range for your needs, you'd want to get the 2015 unless there is a large price difference, just for the extra battery longevity - assuming it wasn't driven in a really Hot climate.
 
krush40 said:
I'm in Orange County, CA near Disneyland. At work I park under a building out of the sun. At home I currently park in the driveway, but can be in the garage for charging if I end up with a Leaf.

I've pretty much decided I'm not interested in anything prior to 2013 due to battery chemistry and I'm pretty sure I don't want an S due to some of the feature upgrades I've read about on here like different heater, etc.
Ok, given your commute and location, you're in good shape to get either. Yes, pay the extra and get an SL or SV, not the S. Also, don't give up on the 2013, as long as it's built AFTER March, maybe even April. FYI, I have a 2011, lousy battery, with 48,000 mi and 9 bars (<70%). I can easily get 25 mi RT even in winter (which you don't have), easily 50 mi in summer. A coworker got the 2013 (June build) and has over 60,000 mi and still hasn't lost a bar (>85%), 45 mi RT commute. His heater is the efficient heat pump (SV or SL, I don't remember) and mine is the older energy hog (like the ones in the S version). If both vehicles were the same price, and identical configuration that matched my needs/wants, then I would definitely get the higher mileage 2015. Mileage for EVs is not an accurate predictor of general condition as in ICE vehicles. Sometimes it's actually the opposite. TaylorSFGuy got 150,000 mi in his 2011 Leaf in Seattle with a 135 mi RT commute. Those miles were added very quickly, and he didn't lose his 1st bar until >75,000 mi, while most of us lost ours in 20-40,000 mi. EDIT: I see Leftiebiker clarified the April build. Thanks, I can never remember.
 
Actually, the S uses a better direct to air heater than the 2011-2012 Leafs. It still uses lots of power, but heats faster and has an On-Off switch so there is no drain from it when you don't need it.
 
The two I used for this comparison are a 2013 SL and 2015 SV.

The 2015 is listed for roughly $800 cheaper, although I haven't spoken to either seller whether there's wiggle room.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Actually, the S uses a better direct to air heater than the 2011-2012 Leafs. It still uses lots of power, but heats faster and has an On-Off switch so there is no drain from it when you don't need it.
Good to know. My 2011 still meets my in-town needs and probably will for another 10 years. Finally after 7+ years, we now have TWO DC Quick Charge station in our area, with a 3rd coming soon. At only $0.35/min, (highway robbery when I pay $0.07/KWh at home), I won't be using it for a few more years.
 
krush40 said:
The two I used for this comparison are a 2013 SL and 2015 SV.

The 2015 is listed for roughly $800 cheaper, although I haven't spoken to either seller whether there's wiggle room.
Makes sense. The SL will have some additional options that may or may not be useful. They've changed them so much over the years, that I haven't kept track. I definitely like my SL and was willing to pay the extra price to get the back up camera. Most of the other stuff wasn't needed (DCQC port, auto lights, etc). Back in 2011 we didn't have as many options or they all got pushed onto the SL. It seems laughable today, but heck, that's what we were offered, and at $400+/mo leases.
 
krush40 said:
now my car only goes to work and back (about 20 miles round trip). The plan is to get rid of the Mazda (and it's payment) and replace it with something that will get me to work and back for the next 5 or so years and not cost a lot along the way while we eventually reevaluate our needs.

As an owner of a 2011 Leaf (less efficient than later models) with a 7 bar battery (probably one of the worst Leaf batteries on the road today), my car has absolutely no problems going a 20 mile round trip, even driving aggressively and at high speed. Either of these cars, in the conditions you describe (in shade or in a garage) will easily last you the next 5 years, battery wise. You could make that trip with a battery at 35% health, which is super unlikely to happen, even with the earliest model year and Phoenix-level climate.

So personally, I don't think you can go wrong. That said, I'd go with whatever car looks best to you and has the best battery health. A better battery will allow you to drive your Leaf further, which means you'll find yourself using it for lots of situations outside just going to/from work.

Also, according to consumer reports, both the 2013 and 2015 MY have excellent reliability. In fact, the Leaf has near perfect reliability in all MYs except 2012. 2014 has the best reliability of all MY's.

Have your Leaf checked for recalls after you buy it. There are a few Air bag recalls on both years, and a brake recall in 2013.

Best of luck!

P.S. Another option is to pick up a 2011 in worse condition for super cheap, if you only want it for that 20 mile commute. You might be able to get a great price (~$3000 less than a 2013) and replace the car more frequently.
 
I'm hoping that, with the CHADEMO charging package, I'll still get use out of my 2013 SV for a few more years...

That's thanks to continued growth of the DCFC network in my area, which will make a low range LEAF less intolerable thanks to being able to get an adhoc quick charge as needed.

With only L1/L2 charging options, I think I'd soon tire of living with a 9 bar (or less) LEAF.
 
I've had my Leaf for less than a month, so I'm certainly no expert, but my wife and I went through a very similar comparison when shopping for ours. We were mostly comparing 2013, 2014, and 2015 models, and they all had mileage ranging in the 20k's, 30k's, and 40k's. I think the highest one we looked at was 52k, and the lowest was 25k. 80k miles on a 2015 seems very high to me, at least compared to the options we had.

Most had 11 bars, one or two may have had 10 bars. That was the extent of my knowledge of the batteries, that plus reading about the 2012 and older models having problematic batteries. I wish I had known about Leaf Spy Pro during our shopping process, I would have used it extensively! But alas.

I think that seeing the different versions of the car and trim in person are important, but I'm not sure you really need to do extensive test driving...from the few I drove, they all felt exactly the same...driving a 2013 felt the same as driving a 2015. The differences are in the other features.

After researching and driving a few, we decided that we definitely needed to have:
Level 3 DC Quick Charge
Heat pump
Traction control
Cloth seats (we don't like leather seats)

Things that were optional but nice to have:
Backup camera
Alloy wheels
A color we liked (blue, red, or dark grey....basically anything but silver)
Dark/Black interior

The above checklist lead us to narrow down our choices to only consider the SV models, since we didn't want the leather seats in the SL models, and the S models lacked the other fancy feature we wanted. We were actually on our way to buy a 2013 SV with 42k miles from a 3rd party dealer, when my wife found an ad for a 2015 SV with 42k miles for about the same price, so we took a detour to a Nissan dealership to check it out. We test drove that one, decided it was a better deal, and found out that we would be getting a Certified Pre-Owned warranty from Nissan, which is definitely worth something (they told us no 3rd party dealers can offer that). So we started the process of buying that car....and after about 3 hours of paperwork and waiting we were told that the car had been sold by Nissan Fleet services to someone else! Needless to say we were pissed. So to make it up to us, the Nissan dealership offered us one of three other cars that had just come in, hadn't been cleaned or inspected yet. We chose a blue one, a 2015 SV with 25k miles. They matched the price of the other one we were going to buy, which is pretty nuts since this one had 20k fewer miles and 12 bars!

We then went through about another 3 hours of paperwork and waiting...the other stupid part of our story is that we had gone with the intention of buying cash, but Nissan has this program where it is actually $700 more expensive to buy in cash! So they convinced us to finance the car (we then paid it off in full, about 2 weeks later, incurring around $50 of interest).

So the final amount we ended up paying, including finance charges, DMV fees, etc., was: $11,562.32
We also got everything we wanted on the list above, no compromises! We just had to wait a few days for the car to be cleaned and inspected, then our dealer personally delivered the car to us (by hauling it on a trailer). We live about 2 hours from the dealership, so that was pretty nuts too!

The whole process was such a mess, I feel like this dealership's motto should be 'You'll go through an ordeal, but you'll get a good deal'.

We originally bought this car with the intention of replacing a 2001 Toyota Prius as our running errands vehicle. Now we enjoy it so much that we're planning long distance roadtrips in it!

So I guess my advice to you is this: if you are sure that this will just be commute vehicle and nothing else, then it isn't all that important which one you choose. As others have said, even a depleted battery will get you 20 miles without issue. However, if you think you may be swooned by the car into taking it on longer trips, then definitely pay a bit extra for a battery that is in better condition, and that has the features you want (especially QC, as roadtrips without QC aren't really feasible).

Also, I suggest buying from a Nissan dealership to get the CPO warranty...despite the awful experience we had, I think the warranty is worth it.
 
Hi! I'm in the market now.

Did you ever get a Leaf?

Please post an update as I would like to know how it went and etc.

Looking for advice and how you managed the process.

Thanks!
 
After doing my research (I hope I covered everything) it looks like I'm heading in the Leaf direction.

Initially I was pretty set on a 2013-2015 SL or SV with QuickCharge and a battery that's in good shape as my only requirements.

But I found a 2015 S with 30/kwh battery with 12 bars with QuickCharge and backup camera and bluetooth. I'd use Navigation on my phone before I used anything built into the car, and I know the heat pump isn't as good and it doesn't have LED headlights, but is there anything else I'd be regretting?

Also, I found an article that was not too fond of the 30/kwh batteries. Is there something there or is that no big deal?

Thanks!
 
If it's truly a 30 kWh packs, then it can't be a 2015 S - no such beast exists...

It could be a 2016 SV with a 30 kWh pack.

Post the VIN and we can figure that out...
 
That is an S, so assuming it's a 2015 it has a 24kwh pack. Not really bad news, as the 2015 pack is the best one Nissan ever made. There have been issues with the 30kwh pack that may or may not have been fixed with a software update.

Where do you live? if you use the heat or defrost a lot, you may regret getting an S. If not and you don't need Navigation or remote access to climate control, don't worry.
 
I’m in Southern California so while I do use the heater in the morning during winter, it’s not exactly a concern.

I tend to buy the middle trim level when car shopping. I like useful features, but don’t need to pay extra for wood trim or cosmetic type stuff.
 
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