badq45t
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:49 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Apr 2011

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:16 pm

i believe that this is a real deal and my 2011 is scheduled to be a test mule for them. I think this is going to be a killer product, but long wait for sure.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 13637
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:53 am

badq45t wrote:i believe that this is a real deal and my 2011 is scheduled to be a test mule for them. I think this is going to be a killer product, but long wait for sure.


long wait? When did you decide to get a VW? :lol:
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:47 am

JohnBysinger wrote:And I assure you, every deposit will result in either an installation or a refund.

Talk is cheap. Put the deposits in a secure escrow account.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

JohnBysinger
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:53 pm

SageBrush wrote:Put the deposits in a secure escrow account.


Absolutely! Currently, it's simply a separate account, however, we're investigating blockchain based smart-contracts as we're using blockchain for other parts of our backend software for the service. Before we get to market we'll have our site off of the current WordPress/commerce platform we're using today and have our own service backend to manage everything, including escrowed deposits and refunds. Note: when I state blockchain, yes this is the same technology that drives cryptocurrencies like BitCoin, however that does not mean we will be tying customer funds to the (still volatile) crypto-coin markets. Blockchain can be used without the 'coin', and smart-contracts essentially work identically to escrow with regards to protections. I know, more words, if you need more assurance, I invite you to be a bit patient with us, follow us, and come back later when we have much more to show you!

-John

SageBrush
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:42 pm

Ahem.

A block-chain is NOT inherently an escrow.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

JohnBysinger
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:09 pm

SageBrush wrote:Ahem.

A block-chain is NOT inherently an escrow.


You're correct, it's not even close to escrow. However smart contracts built upon a blockchain platform can be set up to work identically to a managed escrow account. Here's an example of how smart contracts are used in an escrow scenario:

https://medium.com/coinmonks/escrow-ser ... 678ebe1955

Now, in that example, they're using an Etherium based transaction. but it can be applied to dollars in several ways. The strength of a blockchain based smart contract is the transparency, the ruleset, in this case, an escrowed transaction, is publicly visible, replicated over a distributed system, which in turn makes it effectively permanent and indelible. Of course, escrow is just one fintech application that can be embedded into smart contracts, and a smart contract can exist within a larger scope blockchain.

I apologize if my first discussion of smart contracts gave the impression that blockchain IS a smart contract. I've found whenever I bring up Blockchain, there is a wide range of knowledge on the topic, and sometimes misconceptions about what it is and how it works. So I tend to start such conversations a bit over-simplified and then work from there.
Last edited by JohnBysinger on Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SageBrush
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:27 pm

With all respect due, blockchain is besides the point.

Is the deposit money walled off from the risk of BK ?
As you have portrayed things thus far the answer is no, and techno jargon does not change that fact.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

JohnBysinger
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:49 pm

BK? I assume you mean Bitcoin here? Yes, we'll be completely separate from bitcoin, and instead (if we decide to include the financial portion of the business in a blockchain architecture) be using a public fin-tech smart contract service, which there are several and more coming. Again, we're evaluating that as an option, as the fintech applications are still in a growth phase, and traditional banking institutions are still investigating it themselves. For example if a trusted traditional banking institution (Think MasterCard or Bank of America or similar) offers a smart contract application that's tied to traditional bank accounting and has a workable API, we'll move forward with that.

But in parallel, we are developing our own blockchain application for our battery system to record the service history (things like charge/discharge, temperature, physical impact events, etc) into a record we can use to certify or disqualify our cells for 2nd market use when we bring them out of EV service. That will have absolutely zero ties to bitcoin or any other 'coin' application of blockchain. It's simply a distributed ledger for recording data. It's because we have some good blockchain engineering talent that we're considering its use for the financial pieces, their expertise gives us good insight on the viability of the products currently available and coming in that field.

SageBrush
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:16 pm

BK = Bankruptcy
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

JohnBysinger
Posts: 29
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:47 pm

I re-read your last comment, and it occurs to me that by BK you may mean Bankruptcy?

Even if that's not what you meant, it is relevant, so I'll address that as best as I can as well. Due to the nature of our incorporation, the status of our fundraising efforts, and the SECs rules related to both, I can only share so much. But I think this may help:

As of today, the business is completely debt-free other than these deposit obligations that we're discussing here. Meaning that under bankruptcy, those debts are priority. I've self-funded our efforts for the last 4 years from my own savings and income, and have not used personal debt to finance the business either. Everyone involved to date is currently compensated via equity contracts with zero-pay clauses if funding efforts fail. Again we are in an active funding round soliciting accredited investors. When this round closes, the obligations I just stated above change, but we'll be able to move forward with the formal protections you expect. These will be documented and disclosed to all of our reservation holders, and they will have the option to opt-in or out of those terms at that time.

Now that said, I do need to emphasize, we are a startup, we are building a costly product built on a variety of technologies, in a new and somewhat uncertain market. Your skepticism is absolutely appreciated, frankly, it's expected, and supported by the graveyard of other businesses that have attempted entry into battery solutions in EVs. Heck, just looking at Faraday Future can tell you that even a well-funded venture has risks.

But I would also like to emphasize that I'm passionate about building this business, and the feedback I've received from the community is that someone needs to fill this need and Nissan simply isn't doing enough. Electric vehicles have been on my mind ever since, as a kid, I watched the 70's oil crisis on the news and looked at my toys and wondered why "real cars" didn't just use batteries. The roots of my exploration of building an EV related business myself started 12 years ago when I was converting a 1969 Triumph Spitfire to electric and found aftermarket suppliers in the field horribly thin. It may just be words on a forum, but the business commitment to the refundability of the deposits is backed by my personal passion and integrity that I'm putting into this. I see everyone else's passion and am frankly amazed by everyone's willingness to contribute and help others, I see it daily in EV forums everywhere. Without our customers we have no business, they're putting their trust in us in the form of reservations currently, and that is something I take very seriously.

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