JohnBysinger
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:16 am

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:04 am

mcain wrote:I pick up my first leaf tomorrow. A used 2013 with QC and solid state of health. For me it’s that the difference between 1st round deposit and 2nd round deposit just isn’t that much money and I doubt think I’ll “need” the service for a couple of years. So, opportunity is there and a bench model is there but i don’t have to pull the trigger.

If you start an indie Gogo page, simply include a perk at $150 and set limit to 100. This will Track the first 100 donors on a log. edit post, for the next round. Edit the perk, make it $300 - track 101-1000. Lots of PAT PENDING items on there all the time.

I’d be more happy giving a charitable contribution to a team of supersmart dudes than entering my credit card on the Felix site and wonder how many years it might be until the tech pans out.

Get a millennial on board with Indiegogo experience, get $250k+ without answering potential investors questions about market potential and get the thing built. I had a great founder once who said the hardest business to double was from 100 to 200.

Thanks for being so dedicated and keeping an open mind. There are 2011-2012 LEAFS I would buy, put in your modules and start renting on TURO today if this was further along. Same for the C5 too- that is going to be a beast.

Again, not a leaf owner yet but super supportive



I appreciate the words of support, and do value your input on crowdfunding. I hope you don't mind a bit of a humorous reply, but I wish that a successful crowdfunding campaign was only as simple as hiring a millenial! I and my team have done extensive research on crowdfunding and what it takes to build a successful campaign, and really there are two components to success with that tactic. The first is you already have significant social traction and brand recognition prior to even beginning the campaign. Thousands of followers and dozens of committed influencers ready to push your campaign at the outset. The second is a compelling and quality product/pitch video. There are of course other factors, one of which is product cost. In searching through 100's of campaigns we found very very few successes with products over $500-1,000 i cost, and absolutely zero successes in either EV or vehicle development in general. And finally, we found very few successes that relied on a reward structure where the rewards weren't much more than schwag (t-shirts, stickers, hats, etc) while trying to fund a product beyond a traditional cost model as mentioned above.

That said, we're not actually ruling out crowdfunding, not at all! We actually have a campaign architected to coincide with our buildup prior to launching installations, and have allocated headcount to build a media campaign based on videos from product testing as well as a video blog documenting the development of the Corvette conversion. You'll begin to see our youtube and other channels start to populate with videos later in the spring, and we anticipate launching a crowdfunding effort in parallel likely mid to end of this summer. Our goal here is to build some social momentum with our current efforts and evangelism, and then leverage the crowdfunding as something of an excitement accelerator, a form of advertising if you will.



I also want to address the comment just above about Vehicle to Grid (V2G) or using EVs as backup power. Just from a technical standpoint, there's no physical reason why we won't be able to support that kind of EV use. An obstacle currently is right now with the LEAF, that's not currently enabled in US vehicles, and from what I've seen is only being used in specific trials in the UK and the EU. I can't say who, but we are working with an outside group who is involved in V2G efforts here in the US, what this means is when the LEAF and/or grid(s) can support it, we'll be there and ready, and we'll likely have already completed testing before then.

And finally, in case people here have missed it, last week we announced a new business partnership! We're working with ChargeShare, an EV charging network startup that has a similar subscription model for their customers and a unique crowd-funding model built into their platform. We're working to integrate their system with ours so that our customers will also get charging access as an additional feature for their Fenix subscriptions. We're thrilled about this partnership as it will provide our customers with one less worry with their EVs. We have other business partnerships in the works, and look forward to sharing those as soon as we can as well. Be sure to join our mailing list to keep up on the latest news: http://fenix.systems/subscribe

-John

Leafabout
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:33 pm
Leaf Number: 413354
Location: North Carolina

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Mon Mar 25, 2019 5:46 pm

Has anyone searched the address given on Fenix website on google maps? I got The UPS Store when I searched it.

RonSwanson
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:15 am

Leafabout wrote:Has anyone searched the address given on Fenix website on google maps? I got The UPS Store when I searched it.


I think UPS offers addresses for rent for you to get mail delivered. Could also be many suites at that address.

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 519
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:23 am

Nissan and sectec have vehicle to grid units available.
They cost several thousand dollars and have limited intrest.
Seems products are available for markets that don't exist.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Lothsahn
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:45 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:Nissan and sectec have vehicle to grid units available.
They cost several thousand dollars and have limited intrest.
Seems products are available for markets that don't exist.



1) Still not marketed well. Very hard to find information and qualified installers
2) Volume is low and price is high
3) Actual power output of the units are very low (7-10 KW), meaning that they can't provide whole house backup
4) Many units only do V2G and not V2Backup.
5) Most US residences don't have Time Of Use metering, which means that time shifting loads has zero impact on energy billing
6) How V2G coordinates with existing solar & battery backup units (SolarEdge, Enphase, etc) is quite unclear. I could find no information or qualified installers that know anything about V2G, let alone how to hook them up to a house to create a whole house backup solution.

That said, the market is there. You can buy a new 60 kWh Leaf for $40k, which is both a car and a battery pack. Or you can buy a Sonnen battery for $16k that has 10 kWh capacity. For 60 kWh capacity, that's $96k--and you can't drive a Sonnen battery. As used 40 kWh Leafs and V2G becomes available, I am absolutely looking at using one to power my house. I can buy a wrecked 40 kWh Leaf right now for ~$7000. Park the junker in my garage or shed, hook it up, and I have a VERY low cost battery.

The applications are there, but there's not good execution (yet). It's like saying that electric cars were a terrible idea 10 years ago. That's starting to change.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11967
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:40 pm

Actual power output of the units are very low (7-10 KW), meaning that they can't provide whole house backup


That's enough with a little load balancing (or a lot for an all-electric home).
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:44 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Actual power output of the units are very low (7-10 KW), meaning that they can't provide whole house backup


That's enough with a little load balancing (or a lot for an all-electric home).


Typical US homes have a 20-30A central AC. With a fridge and a few lights, that would exceed the capacity.

What do you mean by load balancing?
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 11967
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Tue Mar 26, 2019 9:58 pm

Load balancing is turning off high drain circuits, like electric water heaters, until they are needed, then using them only one at a time or in pairs, plus lights. That 20-30 amp central air circuit likely only pulls 10-15 amps on startup, then half that while running. Does the Leaf to Home unit have a surge rating, or is that the maximum? Sometimes an extended blackout means plugging in a window unit, instead. I once ran our house on a 3500 watt gen that was only providing 1800 watts at 120 volts, for several days, in the Fall. My "big" backup gen now is a ~7000 watt dual fuel unit that I can connect through a 240 volt 30 amp plug on the house. I'd be quite happy with 7500 watts...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Lothsahn
Posts: 329
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:35 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jan 2018
Leaf Number: 007797

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:49 am

Then you'd love this:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 3690494192

Magnum Cap V2G. 9.5kVA discharge at 400V AC. You'd need to transformer it to 240 and 110, and you'd have to have relevant disconnects.

I don't know if the Leaf supports it or needs special firmware. I don't know what MY Leafs are compatible.

I don't know anyone who knows how to wire it to US specifications.

I don't know if the device is certified in the US as it's produced in the EU.

I don't know how to coordinate that device with a solar system to provide both battery storage and power.

I don't know if the device only does V2G or can provide backup power if the grid is down.

It costs around $15,000 per unit, plus installation.

If anyone knows answers to these, it would be great.
2011 Silver SV, purchased 2018, lives in Missouri (previously in CA)
LeafSpy Pro + BAFX Products OBDII dongle
Battery swap 2019/04/24 (87% SOH, 12 bar)

User avatar
Marktm
Gold Member
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:49 am
Delivery Date: 09 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 022737
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:06 am

Setec Power can supply a "rated" 3000 watt V2H with CHAdeMO (and claims CCS, however, what EV supports it?). Post 2013 Leaf's are claimed to work (I know one person who has actually proven so). No transfer switch, so not designed to work with the grid, nor will it supply the split phase nominal 120 volt used by US households as it is a 220 VAC (60 hz) unit (at least without a center tapped transformer).

Setec, as of almost two years ago offered me a 10kw unit that has a MPPT solar DC input (CHAdeMO, but not bidirectional) for approx. $10,000. The tech specs were so unclear, I decided not to "experiment" with it. Someone with really good power electronics background might want to look into this - if they will still offer it. It's also possible Setec has made some advancements in this area (bidirectional with Leaf charging protocols?).

Seems most bidirectional V2X units are being applied in Japanese/European environments (e.g. Magnumcap, Nissan's unit(s)). HOWEVER, this is changing rapidly as companies such as Nuvve (and, yes Nissan) are early stages of US based V2X units (not sure that any are V2G yet).

I'm not claiming to be the expert in this arena - just my experience to date - if others have more updated information, please post it as the interest level in a nominal 10kw, V2G/bidirectional EV protocols, US home based unit with solar input and backup enabled is very high (IMO).
2012 Leaf SL; 43,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

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