kosjet
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 317089
Location: Delaware

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:52 pm

I'm with you OP in your search for value. For me, that was getting a new 2018 Leaf at current heavily discounted prices. I picked up my SL at the end of September for less than 18k+TTL including the federal and state rebates. I didn't want to pay $5k(28%) more for the Bolt or $20k(110%) for the M3 for the additional 1% utility and status/cool factor (for the M3, not the Bolt :lol: ). Also people seem to forget that the 60 kWh Leaf will be more expensive than the 40 kWh. Certainly there are a good number people who want that, but I still do not want to pay extra for the additional marginal utility. As for the battery depreciation risk, with the 8 year/100k mile battery warranty, I expect to get a minimum of 10 years out of this and it should still have range somewhere between the 24 kWh and 30 kWh Leaf. That still satisfies my needs 95% of the time, but I'll likely want an awesome 2028 EVs!

I also chose to buy before end of year because there is also value in getting the $7500 federal tax rebate one year earlier compared to waiting until Jan.
2018 Leaf SL w/Tech delivered 9/29/2018

alozzy
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:04 pm

You're lucky that good local discounts are available, that you have both federal and state incentives, and that you live in the US :-)

In Vancouver, Canada the 2018 LEAF has been selling at sticker price. We do have a $5K incentive from the provincial government, but nothing on a national level. The 2018 LEAF entry level S costs $37K, so the EV incentive only drops the price to $32K. Too expensive for me to contemplate.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

kosjet
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:05 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Sep 2018
Leaf Number: 317089
Location: Delaware

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:00 pm

alozzy wrote:You're lucky that good local discounts are available, that you have both federal and state incentives, and that you live in the US :-)

In Vancouver, Canada the 2018 LEAF has been selling at sticker price. We do have a $5K incentive from the provincial government, but nothing on a national level. The 2018 LEAF entry level S costs $37K, so the EV incentive only drops the price to $32K. Too expensive for me to contemplate.


Yea, I honestly don't know why the 2018 Leaf isn't selling better in the US. Maybe it's the issues people had with the old batteries, including the problems some faced even with the 30 kWh. Maybe American's are just more fickle. Glad to see it finding a market around the globe otherwise. It really is a great car.

Well I can't complain as other people's disdain is just my gain. "Be greedy when others are fearful" :lol:
2018 Leaf SL w/Tech delivered 9/29/2018

johnlocke
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:20 am

The Leaf (and Renault Zoe) sell well in Europe for three reasons. The first is that European cities are more compact so range is less of an issue. The second is that the batteries in Europe don't seem to experience the levels of degradation that we see in the U.S. The same goes for Japan as well. The third is simply the fuel cost. Gasoline in Europe costs over $6/gal. Electric Is $0.20/KWH. Cost per mile for an ICE is three times as much as an electric.
2016 SV, New battery at 45K mi.
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

SageBrush
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:00 pm

kosjet wrote: I didn't want to pay $5k(28%) more for the Bolt or $20k(110%) for the M3 for the additional 1% utility and status/cool factor (for the M3, not the Bolt :lol: ).
As an owner of a Tesla and a LEAF, I can tell you that the Tesla has a LOT more than 1% additional marginal utility:

    Safety
    Enjoyment
    Superior engineering
    Expected long life
    *Full replacement of an ICE*

I paid $46k for the two cars net out of pocket and pay trivial fuel costs. No back-up ICE crap rusting in my driveway while I am forced to pay carrying costs. It would be difficult if not impossible to have better value.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

golfcart
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:44 pm

SageBrush wrote:I paid $46k for the two cars net out of pocket and pay trivial fuel costs. No back-up ICE crap rusting in my driveway while I am forced to pay carrying costs. It would be difficult if not impossible to have better value.


That must have been back when Colorado would still give you a $5000 tax credit on an $8000 used leaf from a different state. I was doing some
work in Boulder from 2015 - 2017 and guys were eating that up. What a ridiculous deal that was.

I do miss having a performance car. Before i got the leaf I had a heavily modified WRX turbo wagon that would run low 13s in the quarter mile. The leaf is peppy around town but doesn't throw you back in your seat like I'm sure the Tesla does.

I just can't see spending $35k on a car though. I'd rather buy the cheaper car for commuting and spend the extra money on kart racing. The leaf, Tesla, or a Corvette all feel the same on cruise control doing 60 which is 95% of my driving.
2015 S with Charge Package

SageBrush
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:56 am

You are right that Colorado gave me a tax credit for purchase of my used LEAF but it was ~ $2000 on a $8300 car. Still, a wonderful deal.

The Tesla is the first car I have ever owned that has more than ~ 100 Hp or so. I didn't buy it for the power, and it is just not in my genes to be a fast or aggressive driver. And yet now when I drive our LEAF it seems woefully underpowered. Strange how that works.

I certainly understand the desire to not waste money on cars but I view cost in terms of total cost of ownership and safety while striving be a positive member of society.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

golfcart
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:33 am

SageBrush wrote:I certainly understand the desire to not waste money on cars but I view cost in terms of total cost of ownership and safety while striving be a positive member of society.


I notice you keep saying safety... Is there a reason you consider a 2018 model 3 to be substantially safer than a 2018 leaf given that the new leaf has automatic emergency braking, blind spot detection, propilot, etc...?
2015 S with Charge Package

tesleaf
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:44 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Oct 2018
Location: Vancouver, WA

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:59 am

I usually buy new cars. But buying a used 2015 leaf made sense.
The 1st owner paid $11k(?) Over 3 yrs.
For $11k, I get to keep the car until it is useless. I still get about 65miles if i drive it like a grandma. But i only need 24 miles a day.
If the battery degradation is logarithmic and slows down, i will be fine for 10+ years.
My plan is to drive it for 3 years and sell it for $5k.
2015 Leaf S w/ QC . I have Leaf Spy Pro.

SageBrush
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:22 pm

golfcart wrote:
SageBrush wrote:I certainly understand the desire to not waste money on cars but I view cost in terms of total cost of ownership and safety while striving be a positive member of society.


I notice you keep saying safety... Is there a reason you consider a 2018 model 3 to be substantially safer than a 2018 leaf given that the new leaf has automatic emergency braking, blind spot detection, propilot, etc...?

https://insideevs.com/nhtsa-tesla-model ... le-tested/

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/20/1788 ... ety-rating
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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