GRA
Posts: 9510
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:10 pm

NJLeaf75 wrote:<snip>That leaves me somewhere in between the 64 kWh Leaf and the 64 kWh Kona. The decision between those two for me will come down to, in order of priority: (i) backseat legroom, (ii) the rate at which the vehicle can fast charge, and (iii) usable cargo/trunk space. The Kona's ability to suck in electricity at a rate of 72 kWh is about as good as I will be able to get on my budget, so that may sway my decision since I road trip a bit. I am also staring to think that the CCS fast charging standard may be a better option since Electrify America is installing a network of chargers that is clearly biased towards that standard. Accordingly, the I will give the Kona a detailed look...even though in my heart I will be rooting for the long range Leaf.

While it will undoubtedly be priced higher than the Kona, the Kia Niro will use the exact same 64kWh pack and will have more back seat leg (and cargo) room than the Kona, and around the same range (still waiting for EPA, but on WLTP it was slightly MORE than the Kona despite being bigger). I'm considering one, although the lack of AWD and the still relatively slow max. charge rate are negatives for me, as I want to use this for serious road trips, and distances to and between attractions out here in the west tend to be greater than where you are. CCS is definitely looking preferable to CHAdeMO at this point.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

alozzy
Posts: 1203
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:33 pm

FYI, the Sole EV is also rumored to be built on the same platform and battery pack options.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

GRA
Posts: 9510
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:46 pm

alozzy wrote:FYI, the Sole EV is also rumored to be built on the same platform and battery pack options.

The Kona and Niro won't have the 39kWh pack as an option in the U.S. - we'll have to see on the Soul. I've always liked the Soul -it's got a jaunty personality, but range/charging speed are top priorities for me (at a price I can afford).
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:31 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:In fact, the rougher ride

The ride in my Model 3 is wonderful.


You like it, but that doesn't make it soft enough for those who prefer ride comfort over enhanced cornering capability. The somewhat harsh ride has been mentioned in several reviews of the 3 now..

How much time have you spent driving a Model 3 ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

LeftieBiker
Posts: 9822
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:28 am

How much time have you spent driving a Model 3 ?


None. Would you describe your Model 3 as having a "soft" ride, or would it be more accurate to say it has a "firm" ride? My housemate, BTW, thinks my Leafs ride/rode "like a little truck" because she likes her Prius - which I think is too soft and sloppy in the way it rides and handles. So it's pretty safe to say that I like a compliant ride that absorbs even smaller bumps, but don't like the 'Buick Road Master' experience either.

Oh, and I've read reports from at least two other Model 3 drivers who admit that their cars ride a little harshly. Maybe you got a prototype by mistake. Or a beaten-down demo. ;-)

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3s-ride-quality.105757/
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

NJLeaf75
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Feb 2018

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:56 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I will give the Kia Niro a look. Charging speed is key for me as well, but probably not as important as rear legroom (my daughter is growing rapidly). Thus I will peek at the Niro, even though I prefer the exterior looks of the Kona. That said, if the Kona's legroom and cargo space is nit sufficient, I will probably lean towards the 60 kWh Leaf. I read and article (link provided below) that indicates that the long range Leaf may have a charge rate of 100kW. https://electrek.co/2018/01/04/nissan-l ... -charging/

If that is the case, I may be able to get over my CCS preference, and would just cross my fingers and hope that EVGo installs a more extensive network on the east coast. Also, a batch of States along the east coast are teaming up to coordinate their roll out of EV charge stations. See, https://insideevs.com/east-coast-states ... g-network/

I will keep my ear to the ground to se if this multi-state effort will be as biased towards CCS as Electrify America appears to be. If I get the sense that the CHAdeMO has a fighting chance to survive in the U.S. over the course of the next decade, I will likely push the button on the long range LEAF.

GRA wrote:snip>While it will undoubtedly be priced higher than the Kona, the Kia Niro will use the exact same 64kWh pack and will have more back seat leg (and cargo) room than the Kona, and around the same range (still waiting for EPA, but on WLTP it was slightly MORE than the Kona despite being bigger). I'm considering one, although the lack of AWD and the still relatively slow max. charge rate are negatives for me, as I want to use this for serious road trips, and distances to and between attractions out here in the west tend to be greater than where you are. CCS is definitely looking preferable to CHAdeMO at this point.

NJLeaf75
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:38 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Feb 2018

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:59 pm

This is the sneak preview article that I should have posted (it includes a photo of the charge rate on the long range Leaf):

https://insideevs.com/2019-nissan-leaf- ... at-102-kw/

GRA wrote:While it will undoubtedly be priced higher than the Kona, the Kia Niro will use the exact same 64kWh pack and will have more back seat leg (and cargo) room than the Kona, and around the same range (still waiting for EPA, but on WLTP it was slightly MORE than the Kona despite being bigger). I'm considering one, although the lack of AWD and the still relatively slow max. charge rate are negatives for me, as I want to use this for serious road trips, and distances to and between attractions out here in the west tend to be greater than where you are. CCS is definitely looking preferable to CHAdeMO at this point.

golfcart
Posts: 170
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:08 am
Delivery Date: 21 Nov 2015
Location: Virginia Beach, VA

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:15 am

Up until now I charge at home daily to 100% on a timer, but it only sits at 100% for <30 minutes then I immediately drive to work and drain it to 60% or so. The only time I have QC'd is when I need to top it off on my lunch break to run errands or make an unexpected stop.

What are people's thoughts on daily QC but only from 50 - 80%? In the winter I can just QC at the dealership near my office on the way to work. It isn't out of my way at all, I get free QC for life there since I bought my car from them, and it takes less than 10 minutes to go from 50% - 80%. That will give me more than enough range to get home at that point and even let me run the heater in the morning when it is coldest.

I know the general consensus is not to QC a lot for the sake of the battery but this would be at 530am 4 days a week and only for 7-8 minutes at a time. I can't imagine the battery would get that hot on a 40 degree winter morning from 7-8 minutes on a Quick Charger. My car was made in Dec 2014 but purchased in late 2015. I have 83% SOH on the battery so I'd call it fairly typical degradation for a car that age in my climate.
2015 S with Charge Package

goldbrick
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Aug 2017
Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Colorado front range

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:38 am

My thoughts are do whatever is easiest for you. I don't QC often since I don't need to. There are many anecdotal reports of folks that QC a lot without issues (eg taxis) so I don't think that QC's will necessarily kill the battery. Heat is a known degrader for just about any Li battery AFAIK but in your situation it shouldn't be an issue. So if it's convenient, I'd do it. The car is depreciating no matter what you do since 1) that is what cars do and 2) EV tech is progressing. So might as well enjoy it to the max while you have it.

SageBrush
Posts: 2917
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: Thoughts on keeping leaf vs upgrading

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:06 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
How much time have you spent driving a Model 3 ?


None.

Obviously. Try to understand that the large majority of Model 3 owners think the ride is quiet, refined and compliant while having amazing dynamics, and that relying on a small minority opinion to make a general statement is worthy of a trumper.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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