new 2019 E+ leaf battery pack no active cooling?

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aluminumwelder

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2014
Messages
74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcfXiNEfPsM

I'm impressed they squeezed in almost an extra 100 cells in the same space as the old 40kwh battery pack contained. to make the new 60kwh pack. But worred all the extra batteries without better thermal management will not be good in the long run.
 
aluminumwelder said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcfXiNEfPsM

I'm impressed they squeezed in almost an extra 100 cells in the same space as the old 40kwh battery pack contained. to make the new 60kwh pack. But worred all the extra batteries without better thermal management will not be good in the long run.

Where do you live?

What kind of driving will you do?
 
OP, can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.
 
It's an issue, but it's not an issue.

As always, don't buy a Nissan Leaf. Never, ever. Lease it, and let Nissan pick up the crumbs of its nonexistent residual. The exception to this rule is buying if it's used. When you're paying $12k for a barely used Nissan Leaf the lack of TMS doesn't become such a big deal.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
The exception to this rule is buying if it's used. When you're paying $12k for a barely used Nissan Leaf the lack of TMS doesn't become such a big deal.
No. We paid less than 12K for our 2012. It had less than 30K miles on it and was dead from battery problems within a few months, despite it having had all the bars full when we bought it. It was "repaired" by Nissan (which took a lot of time and involved two or three dealerships) and that repair appears to have been a method of getting it to run but not truly fixing the massively quick range plummeting that happened.

Our car is a nearly lemon and we're stuck paying on it through part of 2020. Considering how low the mileage is and how much the thing cost new I consider it a lemon. Imagine if Nissan hadn't decided to offer the battery repair extension! We would have had a few months from the car, a car that couldn't even make it to 30K miles without crapping out completely (rather than barely having any range, which is now the case, following that vaunted repair).
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
It's an issue, but it's not an issue.

As always, don't buy a Nissan Leaf. Never, ever. Lease it, and let Nissan pick up the crumbs of its nonexistent residual. The exception to this rule is buying if it's used. When you're paying $12k for a barely used Nissan Leaf the lack of TMS doesn't become such a big deal.
Pretty much.

I paid $6,300 before TT&L for a 3 year old LEAF and it still has 12 bars of capacity two years later.
There have been some exceptions to the 'never buy new' rule though. E.g., in 2016 Nissan was selling 30 kWh LEAFs with discounts, that in conjunction with tax credits brought the car down to $10 - $15k. Now that we (think we) know that the 30 kWh battery degrades at about the same rate per similar conditions as the 24 kWh battery but has a longer range and a better battery warranty, it was a nice deal.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
As always, don't buy a Nissan Leaf. Never, ever.

My 2014 I bought it new, now has almost 50 k miles, SOH currently at 92%, but that is probably higher than realistic, due to recent long trip with DCQC. I've seen 88% as well, but that was probably lower than realistic. I have a fair shot at getting past 60k miles before losing the first bar.

Nice car, comfortable, fits things I need to carry with ease. More than "good enough", as I don't plan on ever driving it to NYC or move to Phoenix.

Why was buying the car a mistake, again?
 
OrientExpress said:
If you are going to buy used, only consider 2014 and later cars.

A nice 2013 Leaf built 4/2013 or later is also fine, and has the 80% charge option, as well as the possibility of having both the Charge and Premium packages. In the '14 you had to choose just one.
 
WetEV said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
As always, don't buy a Nissan Leaf. Never, ever.

My 2014 I bought it new, now has almost 50 k miles, SOH currently at 92%, but that is probably higher than realistic, due to recent long trip with DCQC. I've seen 88% as well, but that was probably lower than realistic. I have a fair shot at getting past 60k miles before losing the first bar.

Nice car, comfortable, fits things I need to carry with ease. More than "good enough", as I don't plan on ever driving it to NYC or move to Phoenix.

Why was buying the car a mistake, again?
Because your car is probably worth a meal at Chucky Cheese now. Subtract what it's worth now from what you paid for it and it's cost you hundreds/month in depreciation for years on end.
 
SageBrush said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
It's an issue, but it's not an issue.

As always, don't buy a Nissan Leaf. Never, ever. Lease it, and let Nissan pick up the crumbs of its nonexistent residual. The exception to this rule is buying if it's used. When you're paying $12k for a barely used Nissan Leaf the lack of TMS doesn't become such a big deal.
Pretty much.

I paid $6,300 before TT&L for a 3 year old LEAF and it still has 12 bars of capacity two years later.
There have been some exceptions to the 'never buy new' rule though. E.g., in 2016 Nissan was selling 30 kWh LEAFs with discounts, that in conjunction with tax credits brought the car down to $10 - $15k. Now that we (think we) know that the 30 kWh battery degrades at about the same rate per similar conditions as the 24 kWh battery but has a longer range and a better battery, it was a nice deal.
Sweet Jesus, now that is what I'm talking about. That is an amazing price.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
Because your car is probably worth a meal at Chucky Cheese now. Subtract what it's worth now from what you paid for it and it's cost you hundreds/month in depreciation for years on end.
$250 a month over the lifetime of an ICE car for depreciation + fuel is pretty typical. If that is what he ends up paying he did fine. Of course most people end up owing another car to make up for the LEAF's limitations and then the value proposition on a scale of one is a lot more iffy.

WetEV loves to write that he does not live in Phoenix or plan to drive to NYC. As if everything else was within the LEAF's abilities. :lol:

--
Talking about money, one of the mostly unsung advantages of a used LEAF (and its rock bottom value) is cheap insurance. I pay about $20 a month for a $1M liability policy.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
WetEV said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
As always, don't buy a Nissan Leaf. Never, ever.

My 2014 I bought it new, now has almost 50 k miles, SOH currently at 92%, but that is probably higher than realistic, due to recent long trip with DCQC. I've seen 88% as well, but that was probably lower than realistic. I have a fair shot at getting past 60k miles before losing the first bar.

Nice car, comfortable, fits things I need to carry with ease. More than "good enough", as I don't plan on ever driving it to NYC or move to Phoenix.

Why was buying the car a mistake, again?
Because your car is probably worth a meal at Chucky Cheese now. Subtract what it's worth now from what you paid for it and it's cost you hundreds/month in depreciation for years on end.

I didn't know Chucky Cheese was that expensive. KBB gives $10,400 average for private party sale. My cost per mile after tax credit for depreciation is under $0.30 per mile, if I sold. And total cost of ownership if I sold today is below $0.50 per mile. AAA says the average is $0.60 per mile. Sure, I could do cheaper. But not much. And I'd give up some of the things I really like about this car.

Quiet.
No gas station stops for daily driving.
Fits both a wheelchair and a Costco run with ease.
Prewarming on cold days. Keeps the wife happy, and a happy wife is one of the best things in life.


What I could sell it for and what I would sell it for are not the same. The car does what I bought it to do, and will do likely so for years to come. Of course, the last LEAF I had to sell to the insurance company. Got hit from behind hard. I was fine, the car wasn't.

I still don't see a mistake.
 
WetEV said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
WetEV said:
My 2014 I bought it new, now has almost 50 k miles, SOH currently at 92%, but that is probably higher than realistic, due to recent long trip with DCQC. I've seen 88% as well, but that was probably lower than realistic. I have a fair shot at getting past 60k miles before losing the first bar.

Nice car, comfortable, fits things I need to carry with ease. More than "good enough", as I don't plan on ever driving it to NYC or move to Phoenix.

Why was buying the car a mistake, again?
Because your car is probably worth a meal at Chucky Cheese now. Subtract what it's worth now from what you paid for it and it's cost you hundreds/month in depreciation for years on end.

I didn't know Chucky Cheese was that expensive. KBB gives $10,400 average for private party sale. My cost per mile after tax credit for depreciation is under $0.30 per mile, if I sold. And total cost of ownership if I sold today is below $0.50 per mile. AAA says the average is $0.60 per mile. Sure, I could do cheaper. But not much. And I'd give up some of the things I really like about this car.

Quiet.
No gas station stops for daily driving.
Fits both a wheelchair and a Costco run with ease.
Prewarming on cold days. Keeps the wife happy, and a happy wife is one of the best things in life.


What I could sell it for and what I would sell it for are not the same. The car does what I bought it to do, and will do likely so for years to come. Of course, the last LEAF I had to sell to the insurance company. Got hit from behind hard. I was fine, the car wasn't.

I still don't see a mistake.
But sage can do all that and it only cost him a pack of beer for his '14, that's the issue. Not with the car but the resale, it's super bad. Leasees are insulated from this.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
Leasees are insulated from this.
THAT is a HUGE ymmv. Ask @DaveInOly what his lease costs. He is paying full freight for depreciation.

Addendum:
$383 a month
http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/02/leaf-leases-what-will-you-pay.html
 
SageBrush said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
Leasees are insulated from this.
THAT is a HUGE ymmv. Ask @DaveInOly what his lease costs. He is paying full freight for depreciation.

Addendum:
$383 a month
http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/02/leaf-leases-what-will-you-pay.html
Those desperate to get first model year of a vehicle fresh off the line will always pay dearly for it. I'm currently leasing a $57k car for less total cost than a $41k. I wanted the $41k initially, but it was brand new and the manufacturer was not budging. Six months later they are--monthly lease is easily $200 less on that $41k than it was just last summer. People paid through the nose when the Leaf first came out, too, but 1-2 years later the monthly payment was down to a box of chocolates.

There have been some amazing lease deals on Leafs as recently as last month.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
SageBrush said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
Leasees are insulated from this.
THAT is a HUGE ymmv. Ask @DaveInOly what his lease costs. He is paying full freight for depreciation.

Addendum:
$383 a month
http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2018/02/leaf-leases-what-will-you-pay.html
Those desperate to get first model year of a vehicle fresh off the line will always pay dearly for it. I'm currently leasing a $57k car for less total cost than a $41k. I wanted the $41k initially, but it was brand new and the manufacturer was not budging. Six months later they are--monthly lease is easily $200 less on that $41k than it was just last summer. People paid through the nose when the Leaf first came out, too, but 1-2 years later the monthly payment was down to a box of chocolates.

There have been some amazing lease deals on Leafs as recently as last month.
Quite true, but in general when a manufacturer decides to discount cars that are not selling, those discounts are also available when purchasing a car.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
WetEV said:
My cost per mile after tax credit for depreciation is under $0.30 per mile, if I sold. And total cost of ownership if I sold today is below $0.50 per mile. AAA says the average is $0.60 per mile. Sure, I could do cheaper. But not much. And I'd give up some of the things I really like about this car.

I still don't see a mistake.
But sage can do all that and it only cost him a pack of beer for his '14, that's the issue. Not with the car but the resale, it's super bad. Leasees are insulated from this.

Ah yes, but sage didn't buy in 2014, or in 2019. Sage hit the dip, the lowest price point. I had to buy a car in early 2014. In early 2014, I could have bought a used 2011 for about $3000 less, or a used 2012 for about $2000 less, both after taxes. Wasn't late enough for lease returns to hit the market, few cars on the market so not a lot of choice. Some 2011 and 2012 cars were asking more than what I could buy a new car for after taxes.

I'm still not seeing the mistake. I'm driving a car that's worth the $0.50 per mile it has cost me to drive if I had to sell it today. What is so bad about that?
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
There have been some amazing lease deals on Leafs as recently as last month.

There was an amazing lease deal offered the month after I bought in 2014. Lease would have cost me more when I bought, not so a month later.
 
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