HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

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abruzzopat

New member
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
3
Thanks in advance for your advice... on the fence about whether a Leaf is right for us. Here is our situation:

Primary driver is my wife who works as a care giver and drives ~35mi/day around town.

However, our concern is this: we share a mountain cabin and drive to it once or twice per month. It is 144 miles from our home. The drive is about 100 mi on open highway, then about 44 miles of rural highway with twists and turns. We live in Charlotte at an elevation of about 600' and the cabin is at about 4600', so lots of climbing. In summer, A/C is a must, and in winter, some heat would also be needed.

This drive consumes a lot of fuel and is the main reason we want to go electric. The stated 225 mile range of the leaf plus seems fine, but we are worried about real world experience after the batteries start to get old.

Do you folks think the leaf is a good choice?
 
Have you looked into the availability of DC fast-charging stations along your route? Would taking a fifteen-minute break somewhere around the end of the "open highway" portion of your monthly trip be so bad?
 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a90pI-8xibw

The Thrifty Three Tesla vs Leaf Plus seems like a pretty similar test.

On the way up, if the car starts garaged (meaning at 40-50 degrees) and all season tires are sufficient, you should be fine. Else you can preheat while charging before departure.

Per the other post, have a couple (even level 2) charge options on the far end in case stuck in inclement weather on the way up.
 
Levenkay said:
Have you looked into the availability of DC fast-charging stations along your route? Would taking a fifteen-minute break somewhere around the end of the "open highway" portion of your monthly trip be so bad?

Thanks for the reply. So i am a TOTAL newbie here... I did not know there was something that could charge a Leaf that quickly. I did some looking and actually the only DC station along the route is just outside Charlotte. There are a few Level 2 stations along the way.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
The Thrifty Three Tesla vs Leaf Plus seems like a pretty similar test.

On the way up, if the car starts garaged (meaning at 40-50 degrees) and all season tires are sufficient, you should be fine. Else you can preheat while charging before departure.

Per the other post, have a couple (even level 2) charge options on the far end in case stuck in inclement weather on the way up.

Very interesting... thank you!
 
abruzzopat said:
Levenkay said:
Have you looked into the availability of DC fast-charging stations along your route? Would taking a fifteen-minute break somewhere around the end of the "open highway" portion of your monthly trip be so bad?

Thanks for the reply. So i am a TOTAL newbie here... I did not know there was something that could charge a Leaf that quickly. I did some looking and actually the only DC station along the route is just outside Charlotte. There are a few Level 2 stations along the way.


The 15 minutes is for a partial recharge, not a full one. 15 minutes should add, very roughly, about 40 miles of range.

If things were different I'd suggest a 40kwh Leaf, because 90% of the time it would be fine for you, and it can be fast charged. The problem is that the 40kwh Leaf battery both gets hot easily, and charges much more slowly when hot. One fast DCFC recharge each way would probably work fine for you, as long as the car had a least a day to cool off between trips, but all in all, if you can afford an ePlus, that would be the better choice, I think, for you.
 
OP, I think what I'm hearing is the 40kWh Leaf might work, especially with an en-route QC, absolutely requiring a QC along en-route with battery degradation or in cold weather but you'd really be better off with the Leaf Plus(which I believe you are looking at). That said even a Leaf Plus won't make it there and back(288 miles) without charging of some sort, probably not L1 but at least L2(home 240v) or L3(away QC station) would also be OK. Assuming you can get a decent 240v plug(or EVSE) wired at your cabin and you're there for at least one overnight you should have no problem for years to come with a Plus not have to worry about charging en-route.
You might also want to think of a 240v L2 plug(or wired) EVSE at home although with your limited home driving you might be able to get by with L1(120v) and basically leaving your car plugged in all the time while at home. In your case since I believe all Plus's come with a L2 EVSE then just having the correct 14-50 plug at home and cabin would be your cheapest alternative(although personally I prefer to leave my car EVSE in the car for emergencies and not have to bother winding it up and stowing it every time I charge, the call is yours).
IMO it sounds like a Leaf Plus would be an ideal vehicle for you to avoid gas stations for many years to come and enjoy driving a nice clean quiet EV :)
 
abruzzopat said:
This drive consumes a lot of fuel and is the main reason we want to go electric.
'Fuel' as in money, or as in pollution ?

The main problem with the LEAF as an EV is the lack of battery thermal control. Any LEAF owner who lives outside of a cool climate like the PNW should factor in 3-5% battery range loss a year. This has the following effects:

1. High depreciation
2. Effectively a 5 - 8 year car before it cannot do what it was able to when new unless a LOT of extra battery is bought up front
3. Slow fast charging

My advice: If you are set on an EV and since you live in the South and want to use the car for long trips, spend a few thousand more (or maybe about the same) and buy a Tesla Model 3 SR+
 
SageBrush said:
The main problem with the LEAF as an EV is the lack of battery thermal control. Any LEAF owner who lives outside of a cool climate like the PNW should factor in 3-5% battery range loss a year. This has the following effects:

1. High depreciation
2. Effectively a 5 - 8 year car before it cannot do what it was able to when new unless a LOT of extra battery is bought up front
3. Slow fast charging

My advice: If you are set on an EV and since you live in the South and want to use the car for long trips, spend a few thousand more (or maybe about the same) and buy a Tesla Model 3 SR+

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/31/toxic-tesla-fandom-is-counterproductive/

Sage is a Nissan hater.
 
I have often made this statement regarding if people "should" by a Leaf. Please excuse me if I sound like a broken record, or too negative.

If you expect the car to take you long distances (more than 50 miles on a standard Leaf or more than 100 miles on an E+), up high mountain inclines, and during the winter time, I suggest.... DO NOT BUY A LEAF OR ANY EV.

At this point in technological history, there is no reason that anyone HAS to have an EV. The Leaf, like all EVs, are not a mature technology, and folks should buy it only if they are aware of its limitations. They should buy it if it meets their daily needs... And then ALSO HAVE NOT MAXED OUT ITS CAPABILITY. If you expect to push the car's range past its 50% capacity on a daily basis, then you should not buy a Leaf. A Leaf that has its battery driven down to 10-25% on a daily basis will not be kind to its battery long term.

For those who want to drive long distances every once in a while.... You should not have your Leaf as your only vehicle. Have a gasoline car for long distance traveling. If you expect your Leaf to be your only vehicle, then do not buy it...

If you do not like my opinion? Sorry. I would rather have an EV Noobie not buy a Leaf, Than invest in an expensive, limited used vehicle and then be terribly disappointed and angry.

SO - My formula -- Buy a Leaf if your driving will only use a maximum 50-60% of your charge before recharging. In other words - Expect to recharge when your car's battery is at 40-50%. Then your Leaf experience will be a good one.
 
We just took our E+ out to the mountains and back (~300 miles one way) and it was honestly a great trip. Stopped 3 times to charge each way at Electrify America stations for about 30 mins each stop. We only make a trip like this once or twice a year in the late summer but it's fairly easily attainable.

Long term we may not be able to do so but that will depend on the degradation of the battery which is yet to be seen. Daily commute for work is ~75 miles round trip. I love this car and it works well for us in this way.

Now, had I wanted to spend a little more money would we have bought a tesla instead? Uncertain. Had I wanted to spend $50k more I would have definitely gotten the model X LR, but we aren't made of money and spending that much on a car makes me feel very ill honestly.

The Leaf E+ has exactly what we needed and only compromises on things we don't currently "need". We splurged on the SL because I spend at least 10 hours a week in this car and I'm so happy we did. Only time will tell how far we can push this car but I'm excited to give it a shot!
 
Hello NotATesla. Yes, I agree that your decision for a Leaf was a good one. Your daily needs fit perfectly for the car you have. If you have a commute of 75 miles daily, your car will come home with at least 50% charge. The batteries are at their long-term best at 50%, and your car will last its longest with that duty cycle.

PS - I agree that you did not buy a "T" car because those cars are very expensive to OWN long-term. They are best for users that will lease them because they will still be under warranty. You do not want to own a used T car as the car ages.....
 
OP
If you are worried about battery degradation then lease the car for 3 years and then turn in the car and keys and lease another one.
 
NotATesla, I think your Leaf + is an ideal car for your needs, and for most people. You are smart to charge up several times during a long trip, as you will not over stress the battery with deep discharges and long charge times. In a car with 200 miles of range, it is very easy to find a convenient place to stop, charge, and relax some.

I would not worry about battery degradation with such a beefy battery as yours. I have my original 24 KWH battery for 5 years and still have 12 bars, and over 90% health. I drive 50-60 miles daily, never let the battery run lower than 40%, and charge up to 100% every morning right before I leave to go to work. The Leaf is made to be driven a lot. The more you drive it, the longer the battery will last.
 
I would not worry about battery degradation with such a beefy battery as yours. I have my original 24 KWH battery for 5 years and still have 12 bars, and over 90% health. I drive 50-60 miles daily, never let the battery run lower than 40%, and charge up to 100% every morning right before I leave to go to work. The Leaf is made to be driven a lot. The more you drive it, the longer the battery will last.


I drove my 2013 a lot the first year, then when I retired I only averaged 2000 miles a year. I got the battery low on numerous occasions (but never to Turtle) and typical SOC ranged from 18% to 100%. I turned the car in with 12 bars after 5 years. So I'm not sure that the above characterization is accurate. I think that a number of factors matter.
 
^^ and ^^^

Anecdotes are near worthless.
For every report of a 5 year old LEAF still having "12 bars," there are dozens if not hundreds of reports of 2+ bar loss. Look at the survey of capacity bar loss for a more realistic range of outcomes and likelihoods.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16516
 
SageBrush said:
^^ and ^^^

Anecdotes are near worthless.

A collection of anecdotes is just as worthless as a single anecdote.

SageBrush said:
Look at the survey of capacity bar loss for a more realistic range of outcomes and likelihoods.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16516

Yes, look at that survey carefully. Notice that most of the anecdotes are for 2011 and 2012 cars, known to have a battery chemistry problem.

You should know enough about the hazards of self-selected surveys to know better. Why not try honesty rather than deception?

Why do you hate the first modern production EV so bad?
 
From the survey comments: "If you are intending to use the poll data for something keep in mind that your data will come up with an estimate that is earlier than average because the poll excludes those who have not yet lost a bar."


For every report of a 5 year old LEAF still having "12 bars," there are dozens if not hundreds of reports of 2+ bar loss.


This is, as WetEV loves to say, "FUD."
 
LeftieBiker said:
From the survey comments: "If you are intending to use the poll data for something keep in mind that your data will come up with an estimate that is earlier than average because the poll excludes those who have not yet lost a bar."

For every report of a 5 year old LEAF still having "12 bars," there are dozens if not hundreds of reports of 2+ bar loss.


This is, as WetEV loves to say, "FUD."
No, it is the largest collection of data we have available to base decisions on.
As for the notion that a mountain of cars exists that have not lost a bar after 5 year and are not represented in the survey, the stat likelihood of that being true is just about zero based on the data available. After all, it is easy to see the bell curve in the data and only a few percent reach 60k miles before losing a bar.
 
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