danrjones
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:25 pm

iPlug wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:17 pm
We just priced it out. You are not entitled to your own numbers. The numbers are correct and stand. Your statement was incorrect. I don’t expect you to acknowledge that you were wrong but your mistaken impressions do not supercede the accurate data.
I'm entitled to the numbers that fit what I was shopping for, not what YOU were shopping for OR what YOU think I needed.
The numbers i presented were what I would have bought. Since I would never buy a black car, your numbers make no sense for my case.
If you think my numbers for MY case were off, do correct them.



If you just need to feel like you win, fine, you win.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

SageBrush
Posts: 4600
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:39 pm

iPlug wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:17 pm
We just priced it out. You are not entitled to your own numbers. The numbers are correct and stand. Your statement was incorrect. I don’t expect you to acknowledge that you were wrong but your mistaken impressions do not supercede the accurate data.
Presuming the other tax credits and deductions were also available for the Tesla, I agree with you.
By the way, the standard color (no extra surcharge) for the Model 3 these days is Pearl White.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

danrjones
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:45 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:39 pm
By the way, the standard color (no extra surcharge) for the Model 3 these days is Pearl White.
Yes, but at that time Black was the standard color. To the best I can remember, a white with autopilot was about 40k at the time.

I agree it could be had for cheaper, but that wasn't what I was shopping for, which seems relevant to me. For me, it was more than double at that time. It was, for me. I never claimed to be presenting a scenario for anyone but me.

And I presented it because someone asked.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

iPlug
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 4:02 pm

danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:25 pm
I'm entitled to the numbers that fit what I was shopping for
Irrelevant. You were challenged on the false statement "Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:25 pm
not what YOU were shopping for OR what YOU think I needed.
Nope, your statement had nothing to do with you imagining I was shopping for something or that you imagined I thought you needed something.

danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:25 pm
The numbers i presented were what I would have bought. Since I would never buy a black car, your numbers make no sense for my case.
Irrelevant. Your statement I challenged was false. You admitted that the black Tesla was the base model and you knew if was $35k and did not come with autopilot. Moving the goal posts is not acceptable. Even so, your numbers were still false.

You start talking about features you like in your car. Again irrelevant. Your statement is still false.

danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:25 pm
If you think my numbers for MY case were off, do correct them.
Go back and read the posts, it was done for you, line item by line item.

Again, you said "Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

Again, that is false.

danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:25 pm
If you just need to feel like you win, fine, you win.
No winners, I just come here to learn from others in this collective, add my two cents, but get a lot more out of it than I put in.

There is only dishonor in you not acknowledging your false statement "Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf" then moving goals posts which are still wrong and making strange statements like "Add in almost double on my insurance, and it came out in my mind to way more than double the leaf. How about "greater than double"?"

It seems it might have come out in your mind that way, but I also pondered that the earth was flat for a moment, yet none of these thoughts count as facts and are equally wrong.

SageBrush wrote: By the way, the standard color (no extra surcharge) for the Model 3 these days is Pearl White.
Hah, was going to add that, but he's too lost in moving goal posts, so didn't want to muddy things too much more.

Somehow I thought they raised the base price, but indeed the base model currently is white at $35k MSRP.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

danrjones
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:08 pm

I did indeed say base model 3, which I can see led to initial confusion, but when you asked I spelled out what I had priced out. To me white with auto pilot was minimum requirements and I explained that.

What you could have said is that I was correct for what I was looking at, but if someone went full base model at the time it would have been slightly under double. I think we can all agree on that.

Instead you went into attack mode. There really is no apples to apples comparison. They are different manufacturers in different segments and different styles. The leaf sv with tech package and all weather package has features the tesla does not, including adaptive cruise and a heat pump. The tesla with auto pilot has features the leaf does not. No real comparison aside from what one chooses to compare in their shopping, which is what I did.

I'm not sure if you just like arguing or if you thought I slighted tesla.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

danrjones
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:15 pm

I'll tell you what, in order to get you to stop trying to shove a stick up my rear, I'll edit the original post to "more than double the white base model with auto pilot"

Super now we can move on. Sorry OP
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

iPlug
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:30 pm

danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:15 pm
I'll tell you what, in order to get you to stop trying to shove a stick up my rear, I'll edit the original post to "more than double the white base model with auto pilot"

Super now we can move on. Sorry OP
Nah, that would just be trying to change what you said. If you agree your statement was not correct, just say so.

Your changed statement would also be nearly useless for someone looking for a plug-in.

That would be like me saying I got a widget at a garage sale at a crazy low price. Great for me, not helpful for others looking for such widgets on the open market.
danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:08 pm
I did indeed say base model 3, which I can see led to initial confusion, but when you asked I spelled out what I had priced out. To me white with auto pilot was minimum requirements and I explained that.

What you could have said is that I was correct for what I was looking at, but if someone went full base model at the time it would have been slightly under double. I think we can all agree on that.

Instead you went into attack mode. There really is no apples to apples comparison. They are different manufacturers in different segments and different styles. The leaf sv with tech package and all weather package has features the tesla does not, including adaptive cruise and a heat pump. The tesla with auto pilot has features the leaf does not. No real comparison aside from what one chooses to compare in their shopping, which is what I did.

I'm not sure if you just like arguing or if you thought I slighted tesla.

The black Model 3 was the base model at the time you bought your Leaf. You were not asked to price out anything but your Leaf purchase. You just kept moving goal posts.

The fact that the Tesla Model 3 is a better vehicle, even at base $35k than your vehicle is irrelevant to your statement. That you disagree with that and the market, your particular preferences in a vehicle, and that you like certain features more than others and assign them different values, is still irrelevant to your statement.

Arguing is a pain - I don’t like it all. But not contesting this false information is more painful. Since I have both vehicles and did plenty of research on them, your false information was a disservice to prospective drivers that had to be pointed out.

The search engine here is pretty good. You can go back and see how critical I have been on the Tesla sales price side of the debate, more so than Leaf. SageBrush had a long thread on this very topic and I probably came off as a Leaf troll to him.

I advocate for things that plug in and renewable energy, but care little if that is achieved with a Leaf or Tesla. Hope to help people find the lower hanging fruit to that end. Fabricating price differences hurts that end, so your statement had to be contested as it remains not true.

If you wish to stop the discussion, that is fine. I refuse partisanship, it is not healthy to the EV cause.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

danrjones
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Grow up man. It was not false information, I simply did not wordsmith it like a lawyer. I wasnt changing goal posts, I was explaining what I had priced out. What I priced out was what I priced out and I'm sorry if I did not describe it adequately for you to understand.

If you want to be technical, the model 3 in question was the "standard range model" not the base model. They had standard range and standard range plus. So technically you also are in error calling it the base model. There was no such thing on their website.

But I know what you meant and I'm not going to ream you for it.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

iPlug
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:58 pm

Go on, keep spinning. You are still wrong as when you said it. The numbers stand on their own.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

iPlug
Posts: 407
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Rocklin, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:59 pm

danrjones wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:45 pm
Grow up man. It was not false information, I simply did not wordsmith it like a lawyer. I wasnt changing goal posts, I was explaining what I had priced out. What I priced out was what I priced out and I'm sorry if I did not describe it adequately for you to understand.

If you want to be technical, the model 3 in question was the "standard range model" not the base model. They had standard range and standard range plus. So technically you also are in error calling it the base model. There was no such thing on their website.

But I know what you meant and I'm not going to ream you for it.
Go on, keep spinning. You are still wrong as when you said it. The numbers stand on their own. You said base model, not me. The base model was $35k, but you knew that.

Has nothing to do what I meant. I meant nothing. It’s what you said. Shame on you for claiming I said something else not you said.

For the umpteenth time you were only called on the false claim:

“Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

Keep the spin coming.
Last edited by iPlug on Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'19 Model 3 SR+ (own), '19 Leaf SV (leased), '12 Plug-in Prius (sold 3/19), '16 Leaf SV (prior lease), 11.43kW Solar PV (16MWh/yr real production), 20.5 SEER/13.0 HSPF ducted air-source heat pump, 3.70 UEF heat pump water heater, Induction Cooktop

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