Brake failure on nissan leaf

1987xille said:

I also have the issue when hitting a bump in the road - not a great experience when you are slowing down driving towards a roundabout and the car speeds up unexpectedly.
Reported this to Nissan a few times to be told "There is no such issue". Glad to know this is not just me, but doesn't help very much.
I'm used to this "feature" now, however don't think my wife has experienced this as of yet, but have made her aware.

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Unfortunately, momentary loss of braking when hitting bumps is all too common in modern vehicles with ABS and/or stability control. It is caused when the wheels lose traction briefly as they step over bumps. The LEAF seems to be more prone to this due to the integration of regeneration and friction brakes. The suspension on my 2015 is firmer than on the 2011 and it is more noticeable (probably because the tires lose traction over bumps more due to the less compliant suspension).

Gerry

Since you can jack up one corner of the Leaf and take both wheels on one side of the vehicle off the road then it is possible that the bump issue may be related to those moments when both wheels on one side of the car loose road contact and the system has trouble figuring out what to do. Sounds like a software issue or possibly the need for a more powerful CPU or more data bandwidth in the brake controller. I would want the system to give up at that point and go into a safe mode of operation instead of continuing with failed attempts to stabilize.

It would be interesting to see the condition of the caliper guides and brake fluid. On reflection in years past some Bosch systems would act up like that when contaminated fluid built up in the ABS Valve or the caliper guides started getting sticky. Sometimes it was phenolic brake pistons swelling and acting weird that was the root cause of this in other vehicles as they could stick engaged or stick and fail to engage. Personally I am not a very big fan of plastic brake pistons and a good number of times the resolution to issues with those was to have a machinist make a set of new pistons out of stainless steel if they weren't commercially available.

Today my antilock brakes kicked in when I was pulling over to the side of a street to let my kid off at school. Left side of car was on pavement; right side on leaves that had been raked on the road.

Not impressed at all. None of my other rigs do this. Never liked antilock brakes as they have nearly gotten me in more accidents than in my rigs not having it. If the system can be bypassed-- do tell. On my Ford Explorer, just removing a fuse did the trick.

jkline said:

Today my antilock brakes kicked in when I was pulling over to the side of a street to let my kid off at school. Left side of car was on pavement; right side on leaves that had been raked on the road.

Not impressed at all. None of my other rigs do this. Never liked antilock brakes as they have nearly gotten me in more accidents than in my rigs not having it. If the system can be bypassed-- do tell. On my Ford Explorer, just removing a fuse did the trick.

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I've heard similar claims from people about ABS and personally, I dismiss many of them. ABS at least prevents wheels from locking up so that you still have steering control during hard braking.

And, it can prevent spinout or out of control situations when wheels are on different surfaces. Skip to 4:55 of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cnwki1NbMxY to see what happens w/no ABS and later with.

I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L19NRBhg1JU with more with and without ABS demonstrations. Skip to about 2:23.

jkline said:

Today my antilock brakes kicked in when I was pulling over to the side of a street to let my kid off at school. Left side of car was on pavement; right side on leaves that had been raked on the road.

Not impressed at all. None of my other rigs do this. Never liked antilock brakes as they have nearly gotten me in more accidents than in my rigs not having it. If the system can be bypassed-- do tell. On my Ford Explorer, just removing a fuse did the trick.

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Unfortunately, there is no easy way to disable ABS and stability control on the LEAF because the systems are integrated with the EV motor/inverter controls. There is a switch that lets you temporarily disable some of the traction/stability controls. I have had the stability control on the LEAF kick in when it should not and had to compensate with steering, braking, or acceleration to counteract the system and maintain control in turns with bumps.

Gerry

When you used to being in control having an ABS system fight back and refuse to do what you want it to is very frustrating. I can't count how many times when being cut off by another driver on a dry road I have had the brake pedal pulse back at me when the ABS cut in on other vehicles that I drive increasing stopping distance, When your hemmed in by heavy traffic and some idiot cuts you off and brake checks you leaving you nowhere else to go but straight ahead making steering control mute ABS can too often be detrimental.

Yes on courses cherry picked to show ABS as always advantageous the results will be as they slanted the tests to show however in the real world too many have found out that ABS is not always the panacea that marketers try to make it out to be.

When some of the engineers who designed a number of these systems were at my dinner table we had a very interesting conversation on this topic and yes there are flaws and concessions made when designing these systems. Sometimes its the car makers themselves that introduce the problems with alternate custom mappings to the firmware embedded in these systems to meet a particular performance level or overcome what is really a design flaw in the car itself.

When my daughter got her first car with ABS, ATC and ASC she thought it was great until we took it out in a large empty parking lot with no obstacles to hit and tested what happened if you let these automated systems lull you into feeling that road conditions were better then they were. Once the system reached its limits then it was many times a total loss of control. She now drives cars with these systems more cautiously since she learned first hand what happens when they can no longer cope.

Thankfully the Leaf at least lets you turn off the Automatic Traction and Stability Control so you can see what road conditions are really like however its best to always resist driving more aggressively because having these systems can give you such a false sense of security.

When you stop training drivers to handle emergency situations and dummy everything down so even an imbecile can drive then you will have only drivers trained to the level of imbecile on the road.

Look at what's happening in Commercial Aviation with some countries no longer requiring pilots have flight time in simple single engine propeller aircraft. The occurrence of younger pilots having close calls or crashing large jets when automated systems fail is increasing in situations that older pilots who can fly without the automated systems routinely deal with by nature without incident. Remember the crash in California not that many years ago where even though the pilots were warned that there was routine maintenance taking place at their destination on one of the automated approach systems that would make it so their approach had to be handled without it? Despite the advanced warning they still could not cope with not having the system and flew into a seawall instead of over it despite it being a clear day with favorable conditions. The pilots who were trained to land aircraft without the automation however all landed safely there.

lion said:

LeftieBiker said:

Did you hit a bump while braking? I've had the brakes weaken while doing that, both with the Leaf and with a Prius.

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This 'feature' is really pissing me off. Just yesterday, almost got into an accident because of a tiny bump while having to slam my brakes to evade an obstacle. I really don't understand Nissan's point of view here. My Prius never did this, and it's something I can't get used to thanks to the crappy roads.

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sounds like a case of "selective memory"

Cwerdna, I dismiss your point. Sometimes one needs to stop in the shortest distance possible and the ability to turn with ABS is a liability. Without ABS, if you want to turn-- just let up on the brake. It isn't rocket science. But then I still drive a stick, which is out of the scope of a good chunk of the country anymore.

I wonder if there are any numbers on accidents caused by ABS kicking on when it shouldn't. I had a Ford Explorer that like to kick on at sub 8mph speeds-- it couldn't be fixed, so I dumped it. In some situations that was terrifying.

jkline said:

Sometimes one needs to stop in the shortest distance possible and the ability to turn with ABS is a liability. Without ABS, if you want to turn-- just let up on the brake. It isn't rocket science. But then I still drive a stick, which is out of the scope of a good chunk of the country anymore.

I wonder if there are any numbers on accidents caused by ABS kicking on when it shouldn't. I had a Ford Explorer that like to kick on at sub 8mph speeds-- it couldn't be fixed, so I dumped it. In some situations that was terrifying.

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Makes one wonder if ABS is in part responsible for the increase we sometimes are seeing in offset crashes which cause much more devastating damage than a fully centered collision as more steering control allows some the opportunity to get more offset while stopping less quickly.

rjmm82 said:

Hello
I have been having a fault with my leaf the past week and left it in to the dealer but they are saying they can't find anything wrong! I was hoping maybe someone here would know what I am talking about.
Here is the problem :
When I am driving along (straight, flat road, foot on accelerator, various speeds) the ABS light suddenly starts flashing and the car jerks and jerks repeatedly - extremely dangerous to me and the cars behind me - I hit the break and accelerator a couple of times but it's still doing it so I flick the ABS switch on and off a few times and then the fault stops.
It is very frightening as I temporaryily lose control of the car, but what is concerning me more right now is that the certified leaf mechanic is saying he cannot find anything wrong even after a test drive!

Has anyone experienced anything like this with their lead before?

Any ideas would be most gratefully received.
Thanks
Rachael.

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This symptom has happened with another of my cars when there was a problem with the anti-lock brake sensor. My "wheel ring" (a ring with teeth on the suspension) broke and gave this kind of jolting. maybe there is an antilock braking issue on your car...

I think the original post was bogus. He seemed to want information from people? One post has led to all of these accusations of Nissan being negligent??

I don't think that any posters should be pulling out their braking problem stories here.. period. If they have a braking problem, they should go directly to the dealer and not try to either badmouth the car, Nissan, or try to have others diagnose such a serious issue - sight -unseen...

Ok, my Leaf is going to get sold if I can't find a way to fix this. I was going about 6 mph, slowing down and pulling over to the curb to drop my kids off at school, when the ABS kicked in. I was going downhill, and I nearly hit another car because mine refused to stop-- I turned into the curb to halt my progress.

Pulling over, the left side of the car is on pavement, the right side is on leaves. The braking differential kicked on the ABS, obviously. Nevertheless, it was completely inappropriate and unnecessary for this to happen.

My question that I can't find an answer to: is the Leaf's ABS very sensitive, or might I have a sensor going out? I had a sensor go out on a Suburban-- it started doing the same thing; but I knew the rig and knew something was wrong. I had a Ford Explorer that did the same thing-- I sold it because the issue couldn't be resolved. I bought my 2012 Leaf in May, and have had no problems.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

I think the problem is two-fold. Some of you can't drive, some don't understand the nature of friction between the tires and the road surface.

The Leaf has narrow, economy oriented tires. They have low rolling resistance at the price of having reduced friction to the road. Any irregularities in the road surface combined with the fact the ABS and Stability Control have an extremely accurate idea of where the wheels are and what they are doing means it's significantly easier for the driver to push the Leaf in a way that causes electronic helpers to step in.

Put good quality tires that are designed to grip on the Leaf and it will completely change the way the car behaves. I can get the ABS to step in on a medium to heavy brake application on a hot summer day. That's entirely on the tire selection for the car and not at all a fault or design flaw. The Leaf is rather good at being driven hard as long as you have the tires to support it.

So basically I'm saying that just about every example in this thread is a result of poor driving practices. Drive the Leaf knowing its limitations and you won't have a problem.

The LEAF's stability control is overly sensitive and has caused instability when it activates unnecessarily. I suspect that is what caused the loss of braking for Jkline. The stability control system can be partially disabled by pressing a switch, but it should not be necessary. I would permanently disable it if I could. The system on the 2015 seems a bit less sensitive than it was on the 2011.

Gerry

powersurge said:

I don't think that any posters should be pulling out their braking problem stories here.. period. If they have a braking problem, they should go directly to the dealer and not try to either badmouth the car, Nissan, or try to have others diagnose such a serious issue - sight -unseen...

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I disagree. All reports from owners should be made public, particularly when it comes to serious issues.

jkline said:

Ok, my Leaf is going to get sold if I can't find a way to fix this. I was going about 6 mph, slowing down and pulling over to the curb to drop my kids off at school, when the ABS kicked in. I was going downhill, and I nearly hit another car because mine refused to stop-- I turned into the curb to halt my progress.

Pulling over, the left side of the car is on pavement, the right side is on leaves. The braking differential kicked on the ABS, obviously. Nevertheless, it was completely inappropriate and unnecessary for this to happen.

My question that I can't find an answer to: is the Leaf's ABS very sensitive, or might I have a sensor going out? I had a sensor go out on a Suburban-- it started doing the same thing; but I knew the rig and knew something was wrong. I had a Ford Explorer that did the same thing-- I sold it because the issue couldn't be resolved. I bought my 2012 Leaf in May, and have had no problems.

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Re: the bolded scenario, as you said, it seems obvious that ABS should've kicked in. Would you rather have had the car rotated instead? It sure sounds like a case of one side having less traction than the other.

Your posts aren't the first that I've heard from people who have the "belief" that they're worse off with ABS than with and have the "belief" that they'll stop shorter and more safely without it. However, for me, such claims on car forums or mailing lists are VERY rare. I've probably heard/seen less than 5 in total in the last 18 years, including yours.

I also am going to have to at least partly agree with NavyCuda. A big key is grip and traction. If a wheel/set of wheels loses traction when braking or turning, of course it's the job of ABS and or traction control to step in. And, there's no overcoming physics.

That said, if you believe you're experiencing a legitimate safety defect, you should report them to Nissan and also file a safety complaint with NHTSA at http://www.safercar.gov/, preferably after attempts have been made by a Nissan dealer to resolve the issue.

I've had 5 vehicles so far with ABS. 4 were Nissans: 02 Maxima, 04 350Z (had it the longest from Sep 03 to mid-2011), leased '13 Leaf and now my current '13 Leaf. I've can't think of any instance where ABS felt or was unsafe or that I would've been better off without it. I don't drive really long distances, but I'd wager that the total amount of mileage I've put on all those vehicles combined is a bit north of 200K miles. I've also never had any ABS sensors go bad, AFAIK.

Our first Gen III Prius (a 2010) would lose substantial braking on the same slightly rough corner in town very regularly. It wasn't a pleasant feeling, and no other car I've driven has had a problem there with no ABS. The 2013 PIP seems much less prone to it. My Leaf hasn't given me trouble, but I can see it happening with the Ecopia tires especially. I don't think it's right to blame drivers for poor tire and ABS setting choices by the manufacturers. The situation usually feels worse than it really is, although the above wet leaf scenario seems to be the exception. Jkline, what inflation pressures do you run, and what tires? Rather than sell the car, I suggest grippier rubber.

I also agree with the several others who posted, that my Leaf has never shown any issues with the braking. I also own a Mazda Miata, and have pushed the Leaf at times without any problems...

I do not agree that posters should be "throwing out the baby with the bath water" by making remarks like, "The Leaf is a piece of crap!"," I am getting rid of this junk!", or "Nissan should be sued!" This type of talk sounds like the many "internet agitators" that leave bogus negative feedback on Amazon, yelp, or other product sites to make businesses look bad.

There may be issues with your particular braking or other systems that are legitimately wrong with the car, and the user with should bring it to the dealer to be checked. I object to people who think they can have their problem diagnosed on this site or even over the telephone. How many times have you heard your mechanic say, "I have to take a look at it"? when you tell them a problem with your car, appliance, or house? Let's be realistic and not be name calling......

cwerdna said:

jkline said:

Ok, my Leaf is going to get sold if I can't find a way to fix this. I was going about 6 mph, slowing down and pulling over to the curb to drop my kids off at school, when the ABS kicked in. I was going downhill, and I nearly hit another car because mine refused to stop-- I turned into the curb to halt my progress.

Pulling over, the left side of the car is on pavement, the right side is on leaves. The braking differential kicked on the ABS, obviously. Nevertheless, it was completely inappropriate and unnecessary for this to happen.

My question that I can't find an answer to: is the Leaf's ABS very sensitive, or might I have a sensor going out? I had a sensor go out on a Suburban-- it started doing the same thing; but I knew the rig and knew something was wrong. I had a Ford Explorer that did the same thing-- I sold it because the issue couldn't be resolved. I bought my 2012 Leaf in May, and have had no problems.

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Re: the bolded scenario, as you said, it seems obvious that ABS should've kicked in. Would you rather have had the car rotated instead? It sure sounds like a case of one side having less traction than the other.

Your posts aren't the first that I've heard from people who have the "belief" that they're worse off with ABS than with and have the "belief" that they'll stop shorter and more safely without it. However, for me, such claims on car forums or mailing lists are VERY rare. I've probably heard/seen less than 5 in total in the last 18 years, including yours.

I also am going to have to at least partly agree with NavyCuda. A big key is grip and traction. If a wheel/set of wheels loses traction when braking or turning, of course it's the job of ABS and or traction control to step in. And, there's no overcoming physics.

That said, if you believe you're experiencing a legitimate safety defect, you should report them to Nissan and also file a safety complaint with NHTSA at http://www.safercar.gov/, preferably after attempts have been made by a Nissan dealer to resolve the issue.

I've had 5 vehicles so far with ABS. 4 were Nissans: 02 Maxima, 04 350Z (had it the longest from Sep 03 to mid-2011), leased '13 Leaf and now my current '13 Leaf. I've can't think of any instance where ABS felt or was unsafe or that I would've been better off without it. I don't drive really long distances, but I'd wager that the total amount of mileage I've put on all those vehicles combined is a bit north of 200K miles. I've also never had any ABS sensors go bad, AFAIK.

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In Jkline's situation, I would prefer the car apply full braking to the wheels with traction so the driver has a chance to stop the car. If it pulls to that side, steering input can counteract it. It sounds like the stability control sensed the car rotating slightly and released the brakes (sounding like the ABS) on the wheels with traction and the ABS released the brakes on the wheels without traction to keep them rotating. The net effect was insufficient brake force to stop the car. I have had two different SUVs from my office act similar on snow/ice with different traction between the right and left sides. The only way I could have appropriate braking was to turn off the stability control (fortunately each of those vehicles had a switch). I will avoid purchasing personal vehicles for driving in winter conditions if they have stability control because of my experience with office vehicles.

Gerry

There is an anomaly with Leaf ABS system. I've noticed it few times during two years of use.
It most likely appears at very low speeds and slippery surface condition.
Either ABS sensor(s) does not get good enough hall effect at low speeds to transmit clear pulses or
ABS control module has some anomalies in algorithm. It is not really dangerous due to occurring
at low speeds. Brakes do not technically fail. Braking effect is unnecessarily limited.
Either way parking (aka emergency) brake can be used while driving at such speeds, including 2011/2012 Leafs.