WetEV
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: No Brakes!

Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:01 pm

Leaver wrote:NOTHING between here and there except a very steep mountain pass, (with mountain goats, bears, moose, and this time of year, -40 degree air temps), and no places to recharge. So still a challenge, but I do plan to give them a call tomorrow. I suppose I could always arrange for an expensive tow if necessary.


EV trip planner says you don't make it, without a charge stop. Uses 26 kWh going, and you don't have 26 kWh. On a warm day, not in winter. Don't even think about trying this in winter.

https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=604wa80t


Greenrace says you don't make it there. You might make it back, if you can drive at 40 km per hour.

http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/

1000 meters of climb, then another 1000+ meters of short up and downs.

I don't fully trust both of these tools out of the box, but for a sanity test they do the job.

OK, with a midpoint charge.

Best bet for a charging stop that I could find is is "Montana RV Park" in Carcross. Looks like they probably have TT30 plugs, just looking at the wires connecting trailers on Google Maps streetview. Even this is scary getting to, EV trip planner suggests you need 17 kW to get here from Skagway. However, if you get there, and get a full charge in Whitehorse... Opps, dealer doesn't seem to have a charging station handy... But there are several RV parks with 30 Amp service (probably TT30).

TT30 can support 24 Amp 120V. About two and a half faster than the 12 Amp 120V cable that comes with the car. Maybe 9 to 10 miles of range per hour of charging, or 2.4 kWh or so. But you need a special TT30 adapter, and you need a portable 24 Amp or more capable charger that will support 120V at that current.

So at best case, drive to Carcross, charge for 7 hours, drive to Whitehorse, get the work done, charge for 4 hours at one of several RV parks, drive to Carcross, charge for 4 hours, arrive home with half a battery. Adventure!! :shock: :roll:

Doesn't leave much margin, not to mention lack of alternatives. Oh, and how busy/fast is the traffic? I'm not at all sure if I believe the speed estimates in EV trip planner. Seems slower than I would expect.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

DarthPuppy
Posts: 488
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:45 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Aug 2013

Re: No Brakes!

Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:06 pm

Check with that mechanic as to the source of his belief that Nissan has to ship it to get it fixed. That might be an Alaska regulation that Nissan customer service is ignoring. If it is, a call to the correct regulator might prompt a change in Nissan's response. Sadly, it is amazing how much companies will try to get away with.

Leaver
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:21 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2017

Re: No Brakes!

Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:43 pm

WetEV wrote:
Leaver wrote:NOTHING between here and there except a very steep mountain pass, (with mountain goats, bears, moose, and this time of year, -40 degree air temps), and no places to recharge. So still a challenge, but I do plan to give them a call tomorrow. I suppose I could always arrange for an expensive tow if necessary.


EV trip planner says you don't make it, without a charge stop. Uses 26 kWh going, and you don't have 26 kWh. On a warm day, not in winter. Don't even think about trying this in winter.

https://www.evtripplanner.com/planner/2-8/?id=604wa80t


Greenrace says you don't make it there. You might make it back, if you can drive at 40 km per hour.

http://www.jurassictest.ch/GR/

1000 meters of climb, then another 1000+ meters of short up and downs.

I don't fully trust both of these tools out of the box, but for a sanity test they do the job.

OK, with a midpoint charge.

Best bet for a charging stop that I could find is is "Montana RV Park" in Carcross. Looks like they probably have TT30 plugs, just looking at the wires connecting trailers on Google Maps streetview. Even this is scary getting to, EV trip planner suggests you need 17 kW to get here from Skagway. However, if you get there, and get a full charge in Whitehorse... Opps, dealer doesn't seem to have a charging station handy... But there are several RV parks with 30 Amp service (probably TT30).

TT30 can support 24 Amp 120V. About two and a half faster than the 12 Amp 120V cable that comes with the car. Maybe 9 to 10 miles of range per hour of charging, or 2.4 kWh or so. But you need a special TT30 adapter, and you need a portable 24 Amp or more capable charger that will support 120V at that current.

So at best case, drive to Carcross, charge for 7 hours, drive to Whitehorse, get the work done, charge for 4 hours at one of several RV parks, drive to Carcross, charge for 4 hours, arrive home with half a battery. Adventure!! :shock: :roll:

Doesn't leave much margin, not to mention lack of alternatives. Oh, and how busy/fast is the traffic? I'm not at all sure if I believe the speed estimates in EV trip planner. Seems slower than I would expect.

Thanks so much for doing that research.

Carcross would be the first and only place along the route that might be able to help. But it's about 65 miles from me, and because I have to drive straight up White Pass, I don't stand a chance at getting there... MAYBE in the summer with a 50 mph tail wind :lol: But certainly not a prayer this time of year. The route is a pretty rough road (not what most people would consider a "highway"). In perfect summer conditions, it takes a little over a hour driving at 60-65 mph. This time of year, there is deep snow, avalanches, -40 temps with -60 windchills. Realistically, I would have to hire a tow truck out of Whitehorse to drive to Skagway and then tow the LEAF back to Whitehorse.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7674
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: No Brakes!

Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:24 pm

TT30 can support 24 Amp 120V. About two and a half faster than the 12 Amp 120V cable that comes with the car.


I make it exactly twice as fast - no more.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

alozzy
Posts: 744
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: No Brakes!

Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:49 am

More info here on the brake recall:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2016/R ... 9-1600.pdf

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2016/R ... 9-8978.PDF

It sounds like the fix is 100% software, no hardware changes are required. The TSB is NTB15-089, which any Nissan dealer should be able to lookup. However, apparently only EV certified techs are supposed to implement this TSB. Apparently a "CONSULT III plus" is needed for the reprogramming.

I recalled reading on these forums about how to disable the TCS, VDC, and ABS systems for performance reasons. So, after a search, I found the post:

viewtopic.php?t=24738

You could try pulling the F17 fuse (see photo in that post) to disable the ABS system. Presumably, having functioning brakes with no ABS would be better than no brakes at all. That might at least get you through to summer, when a trip to a Nissan dealer for reprogramming would be more viable.

NOTE: the PDF, second URL above, states:

October 2015 – Nissan launched a voluntary service campaign in the U.S. and Canada on MY 2013-2015 LEAF vehicles to address an issue where vehicles would go into “VDC assist” mode upon vehicle start-up in extremely cold weather conditions


So, perhaps the VDC also has to be disabled...

Whatever you decide to do, you do so at your own risk.
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

alozzy
Posts: 744
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact: Website

Re: No Brakes!

Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:08 am

Not a great option, but perhaps you could order the entire brake booster assembly:

https://goo.gl/JgKj9L

That's the latest part # for the brake booster, which I would guess already have the updated software, but you'd want to check that with a dealer before ordering.

FWIW, here's the TSB procedure that the mechanic would follow:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/ ... 0-2280.pdf
Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
After market, DIY LED DRLs
LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
Loving my first BEV :D

Leaver
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:21 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2017

Re: No Brakes!

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:30 am

Lots of great information. Thank you all for taking the time and the references. I'll get it figured out somehow.

Thank You!

WetEV
Posts: 1816
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: No Brakes!

Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:41 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
TT30 can support 24 Amp 120V. About two and a half faster than the 12 Amp 120V cable that comes with the car.


I make it exactly twice as fast - no more.


Would be true if there were not circulation pumps and such what that use a few hundred watts. The faster charge rate is more efficient.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

Leaver
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:21 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2017

Re: No Brakes!

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:24 pm

Just thought I'd report back.

I removed the 12V battery and gave it a full charge overnight. Reinstalled it this morning, and so far so good. I have not had the brake issue again, but it is a balmy 10 degrees above now. Apparently the issue only happens if it's below 0 degrees, so I suppose we'll see what happens when it cools off again.

This was certainly a "pucker" moment and you should all be aware of this issue if you're not already... especially as so many of you are experiencing very cold temps this winter. Just keep it in the back of your mind if you lose your brakes and be prepared to stop your vehicle via other methods.

So many thanks again for your help. Not sure what to do long term about the recall fix, but I'll continue to look into the possibilities.

Thanks

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7674
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: No Brakes!

Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:57 pm

IIRC, the recall is about the booster unit freezing up in extreme cold, and it just cycles the booster regularly to keep it from doing that. So warmer temps might be the only reason for the problem appearing to go away. I just wanted you to know that...
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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