smkettner
Well-known member
This is like 2011 déjà vu all over again. Why are people still buying BEVs from Nissan?
2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses
- Thread starter cwerdna
- Start date
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HIOJim
Well-known member
Some of us aren't. I've leased 3 Leafs since 2011 but I'm now done with Nissan. Which is sad as I liked the cars, just not the battery capacity loss. Which got worse over time.smkettner said:
goldbrick
Well-known member
smkettner said:
Since my commute is 9 miles each way, I get free charging at work, I live in a smaller town and everything 'local' is within 50 miles of me, I have an 8 year/100k mile battery degradation warranty. Oh ... and I got $22.5k in rebates and credits.
I love my Leaf. It's not for everyone but it works for me.
goldbrick said:
Agreed. Colorado had some serious discounts in 2017. My net price was 9,000 + tax + dealer fee after $24,500 in discounts. As I am charging for free at work and saving ~$900/year in fuel costs, it was financially a good decision.
LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
Interested to hear if anyone has had a pack replacement in the last month or so. We are nine weeks now waiting for a replacement.
jbuntz
Well-known member
What are the Lemon Law rules in your state?LTLFTcomposite said:
LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
We talked to a lemon law attorney they weren't confident in pursuing it just because it was taking a long time, but now it has taken a really long time. (Florida)jbuntz said:
mn4az
Well-known member
Minnesota driver here... full stats over time below. Apologies for the formatting - to lazy to fix. I was shocked to see a 3.81% SOH drop in less than two months. April 7th was still very cold here. Could that have influenced the month over month SOH results (ie April '18 to May '18)?
Date 11/10/2016 11/28/2017 4/7/2018 5/23/2018
AHR 74.49 70.25 70.15 67.12
SOH 93.00% 88.00% 88.26% 84.45%
V 388.84 395.74 394.97 395.62
Hx 88.41% 82.90% 80.78% 76.92%
ODO 9769 24462 29348 31137
QC 3 7 9 9
L1/L2 350 1209 1530 1651
SOC 87.70% 97.80% 97.80% 97.80%
GIDS 310 321 307
FWIW... While I haven't lost my first bar it seems that a pack in cold country that we've tried to baby, which we are done with doing given that it's apparently not helping with the degradation, is on a trajectory, based on 4 data points, for replacement at around 80K miles. I'd actually be just fine if we claimed a warranty at 80K miles. Hopefully by then we'll have a revenue neutral price on carbon and a 5-6 year old used Leaf with a brand new 30 kWh battery pack would sell well on the used EV market.
I will report more results back around Labor Day and/or when the first bar drops.
Date 11/10/2016 11/28/2017 4/7/2018 5/23/2018
AHR 74.49 70.25 70.15 67.12
SOH 93.00% 88.00% 88.26% 84.45%
V 388.84 395.74 394.97 395.62
Hx 88.41% 82.90% 80.78% 76.92%
ODO 9769 24462 29348 31137
QC 3 7 9 9
L1/L2 350 1209 1530 1651
SOC 87.70% 97.80% 97.80% 97.80%
GIDS 310 321 307
FWIW... While I haven't lost my first bar it seems that a pack in cold country that we've tried to baby, which we are done with doing given that it's apparently not helping with the degradation, is on a trajectory, based on 4 data points, for replacement at around 80K miles. I'd actually be just fine if we claimed a warranty at 80K miles. Hopefully by then we'll have a revenue neutral price on carbon and a 5-6 year old used Leaf with a brand new 30 kWh battery pack would sell well on the used EV market.
I will report more results back around Labor Day and/or when the first bar drops.First bar drops at about 80% so around 40,000 mi. 4th bar drops around 65% so maybe 70,000 mi. 4-5 years into the warranty, Could I ask What you mean by babying the battery? Charging habits? I'd like to know what you tried. There is a bit of an argument over whether better charging habits can help preserve the battery or if it doesn't make any difference how you charge. You are one of the first people in the northern tier to report serious battery degradation.mn4az said:Minnesota driver here... full stats over time below. Apologies for the formatting - to lazy to fix. I was shocked to see a 3.81% SOH drop in less than two months. April 7th was still very cold here. Could that have influenced the month over month SOH results (ie April '18 to May '18)?
Date 11/10/2016 11/28/2017 4/7/2018 5/23/2018
AHR 74.49 70.25 70.15 67.12
SOH 93.00% 88.00% 88.26% 84.45%
V 388.84 395.74 394.97 395.62
Hx 88.41% 82.90% 80.78% 76.92%
ODO 9769 24462 29348 31137
QC 3 7 9 9
L1/L2 350 1209 1530 1651
SOC 87.70% 97.80% 97.80% 97.80%
GIDS 310 321 307
FWIW... While I haven't lost my first bar it seems that a pack in cold country that we've tried to baby, which we are done with doing given that it's apparently not helping with the degradation, is on a trajectory, based on 4 data points, for replacement at around 80K miles. I'd actually be just fine if we claimed a warranty at 80K miles. Hopefully by then we'll have a revenue neutral price on carbon and a 5-6 year old used Leaf with a brand new 30 kWh battery pack would sell well on the used EV market.
mn4az
Well-known member
johnlocke said:
Here's the list of things I have tried to do:
-Keep in a 25%-80% SOC.
-When above 80% SOC try to drive as soon as possible.
-On occasion when below <25% have charged just enough to get to 25% - 30%.
-During cold winter days (ie <30F for high temp) charge to 100% SOC but drive as quickly as possible upon charge completion
-When on vacation let car sit at 40-60% SOC
-Most charging done between 2a - 8a (not charging when battery is hot).
-Charging done on ClipperCreek LCS-25, 240V, 20A (slower than most)
-Always in ECO mode.
Car sits in an open parking lot for 7-8 hours/day while at work and a connected/covered garage when it's home and I bet that over 50% of the miles are at >55MPH.
We've been Leaf drivers since our leased '13 SV (mostly charged to 80%) and our other EV is a Tesla. After turning in the '13 with 45k miles and zero bar loss (didn't have LeafSpy at the time for measurements) we purchased the '16 SV (bought in April '16 - manufacturing date was Dec '15). I wanted a good 10 years out of it: 4 years of adults driving and 6 years of kid driving and I expected some degradation. Thus, I tried to "baby" the battery using the above methods. Now that I know it's not making a difference I am not going waste my time any more. Just going to charge it to 100% SOC during my off peak times and enjoy driving it knowing that a new battery is very likely in it's future.
One thing that charging to 100% will allow me to do is to collect more data points. My guess is I will start taking LeafSpy readings on monthly basis (ie first Saturday of the month).
One random point.... I know a guy that lives 7 miles from me with an '11 Leaf and similar driving patterns. His data shows about a 1% SOH drop every 2500 miles which is VERY similar to mine. Makes me wonder if driving patterns/habit/temperature is more important than how one charges the car.
rcm4453
Well-known member
mn4az said:
I'm in Wayzata, MN and my 2016 30kwh Leaf lost it's 2nd bar a couple weeks ago.
October 2017 first bar lost:
Mfg date: 12/15
Mileage: 19,648
SOH: 80%
AHr: 64.20
Hx: 75.86%
SOC: 97.4
GIDS: 293
22.7 kWh
May 2018 2nd bar lost:
Mileage: 26,681
SOH: 75.45%
AHr: 59.97
Hx: 68.83%
SOC: 82.8%
GIDS: 239
18.5 kWh
I stopped babying my battery as soon as I noticed the rapid degradation, despite my best efforts to preserve it. My neighbor has a 2013 Leaf with around 65k miles and still has all 12 bars (he doesn't baby his battery at all). He can't believe I've already lost 2 of my bars!
mn4az
Well-known member
rcm4453 said:
I am amazed as well. This thread has degradation like that in warm/hot climates, but here in the Twin Cities..... Yikes.
Given that rcm4453 and my manufacture date are the same has anyone been able to correlate to a that ?
mn4az
Well-known member
Has there been an effort by anyone to communicate directly with Nissan about what we in this forum are seeing w.r.t. the '16 battery degradation?
Selfishly I'd love to have Nissan identify the problem so that when my turn for replacement comes up its a MUCH better pack.
Selfishly I'd love to have Nissan identify the problem so that when my turn for replacement comes up its a MUCH better pack.
Phatcat73
Well-known member
There are existing warranty claims on '16 packs that have been processed. I'm sure Nissan is aware.
Similarly, I'm predicting to lose our first bar at the end of the summer, at around 20k miles. (currently 16k miles and 88% SOH). Our March build 2013 maintained a 100% SOH until about 30k miles and didn't lose it's first bar until 40k.
Similarly, I'm predicting to lose our first bar at the end of the summer, at around 20k miles. (currently 16k miles and 88% SOH). Our March build 2013 maintained a 100% SOH until about 30k miles and didn't lose it's first bar until 40k.
rcm4453
Well-known member
mn4az said:Has there been an effort by anyone to communicate directly with Nissan about what we in this forum are seeing w.r.t. the '16 battery degradation?
Selfishly I'd love to have Nissan identify the problem so that when my turn for replacement comes up its a MUCH better pack.
I contacted the Nissan EV hotline when I lost my 1st bar. They basically blew me off saying what I'm experiencing is completely normal, nothing to worry about. If I'm concerned I'm more than welcome to bring the car to my local dealer and have them check the battery. I obviously didn't bother as many before me have done so already and all they say is come back for a battery replacement after the 4th bar drops. I filed a complaint with Nissan letting them know how I feel about it, they couldn't have cared less!
Here is an interesting article talking about the 30kwh packs degrading more rapidly than the 24kwh ones:
https://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-30-kwh-battery-degrading-more-rapidly-than-24-kwh-pack/
dwl
Well-known member
Another week and no answer? Maybe a good sign if they come up with a better replacement soonish but not good if you need the lost range back now.LTLFTcomposite said:
LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
Wasn't able to follow up this week with them but will be next week, and becoming more assertivedwl said:
webeleafowners
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
Maybe they”ll use the new 40 kw battery. Is it physically possible?
