2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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On the 30 KWH battery, the twelfth bar doesn't disappear until you hit 80% SOH. Of course that was before Nissan did the LBC firmware update. Now we will have to wait for new reports of lost bars. Until Nissan details the change or we get sufficient data to empirically map the battery loss, all bets on when the capacity bars disappear are off. Nissan probably didn't change the mapping but there's no way to be sure at this point. The same goes for warranty replacement of the battery. It will take a couple of years to collect enough data points map the degradation of the battery with the new firmware. While I hope that the battery failures so far were the result of software errors and that my new battery will last 6 years, I ain't holding my breath.
 
johnlocke said:
On the 30 KWH battery, the twelfth bar doesn't disappear until you hit 80% SOH. Of course that was before Nissan did the LBC firmware update. Now we will have to wait for new reports of lost bars. Until Nissan details the change or we get sufficient data to empirically map the battery loss, all bets on when the capacity bars disappear are off. Nissan probably didn't change the mapping but there's no way to be sure at this point. The same goes for warranty replacement of the battery. It will take a couple of years to collect enough data points map the degradation of the battery with the new firmware. While I hope that the battery failures so far were the result of software errors and that my new battery will last 6 years, I ain't holding my breath.
It must drop a little earlier now. After the update June 26 I was 1 bar down at 83.16%. As of Aug 17 still 1 bar down at 81.15%
 
jbuntz said:
johnlocke said:
On the 30 KWH battery, the twelfth bar doesn't disappear until you hit 80% SOH. Of course that was before Nissan did the LBC firmware update. Now we will have to wait for new reports of lost bars. Until Nissan details the change or we get sufficient data to empirically map the battery loss, all bets on when the capacity bars disappear are off. Nissan probably didn't change the mapping but there's no way to be sure at this point. The same goes for warranty replacement of the battery. It will take a couple of years to collect enough data points map the degradation of the battery with the new firmware. While I hope that the battery failures so far were the result of software errors and that my new battery will last 6 years, I ain't holding my breath.
It must drop a little earlier now. After the update June 26 I was 1 bar down at 83.16%. As of Aug 17 still 1 bar down at 81.15%
In my case, the first bar started to come and go around 83% but didn't disappear altogether until I hit 80%. The second bar dropped at 74% without any warning. Third bar at 67% and the fourth one at 63%. The posts I've seen are all around 80-82%. Of course we will have to track any new posts with batteries that have the firmware change. It would be odd if Nissan has raised the first bar drop point intentionally but they may have. Just have to wait for more posts.
 
This graph from our Flip The Fleet mathematician has been shared on a local Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/160400321468913/) and may be of interest to this group. It seems usual to not see any significant change in Hx from the update and this is to help provide an indication of whether the firmware update is required using Hx as a guide.
hx-vs-soh.jpg
 
dwl said:
This graph from our Flip The Fleet mathematician has been shared on a local Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/160400321468913/) and may be of interest to this group. It seems usual to not see any significant change in Hx from the update and this is to help provide an indication of whether the firmware update is required using Hx as a guide.
hx-vs-soh.jpg
How do I read this as my Hx is 57.05%? Should my SOH be about 75%?
 
jbuntz said:
dwl said:
This graph from our Flip The Fleet mathematician has been shared on a local Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/160400321468913/) and may be of interest to this group. It seems usual to not see any significant change in Hx from the update and this is to help provide an indication of whether the firmware update is required using Hx as a guide.
hx-vs-soh.jpg
How do I read this as my Hx is 57.05%? Should my SOH be about 75%?
Your Hx is well below the reported results we see here in New Zealand so unfortunately into unknown territory. I note from your signature you had 83% SoH after update which would indicate a higher Hx but this may be a good example of how Hx might diverge under different conditions and the linear estimation may not apply. Most of the cars here are from Japan where they have experienced a range of temperatures but maybe not as high as you have in Texas.
 
dwl said:
This graph from our Flip The Fleet mathematician has been shared on a local Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/160400321468913/) and may be of interest to this group. It seems usual to not see any significant change in Hx from the update and this is to help provide an indication of whether the firmware update is required using Hx as a guide.
hx-vs-soh.jpg

So you have concluded that Hx is a percentage similar to SOH, but you have not indicated your view of what it represents.
 
Since I've posted my severe capacity loss (down to 9 bars on a 2016 with fewer than 8,000 miles), I'll post my recall reprogram.

Current Odo: 8,292

Pre-Reprogram
Battery health bars: 9/12
AHr: 52.91
SOH: 66.57%
Hx: 65.77%

Post-Reprogram
Battery health bars: 12/12
AHr: 68.27
SOH: 85.90%
Hx: 65.75%

So I got my 12 bars back!
 
VAB5 said:
Since I've posted my severe capacity loss (down to 9 bars on a 2016 with fewer than 8,000 miles), I'll post my recall reprogram.

Current Odo: 8,292

Pre-Reprogram
Battery health bars: 9/12
AHr: 52.91
SOH: 66.57%
Hx: 65.77%

Post-Reprogram
Battery health bars: 12/12
AHr: 68.27
SOH: 85.90%
Hx: 65.75%

So I got my 12 bars back! I think it's time to sell...

I don't blame you :shock:
 
VAB5 said:
Since I've posted my severe capacity loss (down to 9 bars on a 2016 with fewer than 8,000 miles), I'll post my recall reprogram.

Current Odo: 8,292

Pre-Reprogram
Battery health bars: 9/12
AHr: 52.91
SOH: 66.57%
Hx: 65.77%

Post-Reprogram
Battery health bars: 12/12
AHr: 68.27
SOH: 85.90%
Hx: 65.75%

So I got my 12 bars back! I think it's time to sell...

Do you notice any change in real-world range?
 
Update for August. AH = 80.71 SOH = 101.55% Hx = 94.42% mileage = 49142 3 l3 81 L2 on new battery. Still at 363 GID's although the AH value is down by an AH this month. I don't think that I'll see any change in the GID's value until AH drops below 79.5. Three months of hot weather and 4000 miles of driving doesn't seem to have had much effect on the battery. The old battery lost 4 AH it's first summer (June,July,August) so I'm optimistic that the new battery may hold up better.
 
Just noticed the 1st bar drop a couple of days ago. 2017 SL model. Only have about 8800 miles and owned almost 1 year. This is way sooner then I expected. I have used QC less then 5 times and mostly using L2 charging. Should I be worried about this?
 
CarlAZ said:
Just noticed the 1st bar drop a couple of days ago. 2017 SL model. Only have about 8800 miles and owned almost 1 year. This is way sooner then I expected. I have used QC less then 5 times and mostly using L2 charging. Should I be worried about this?

Yes... and no. It should be covered under warranty but I don't think we've got any examples yet of people dropping their fourth bar after the BMS update so it's still a bit of a wildcard what exactly Nissan has changed. I just dropped down to 63% SOH and I'm anticipating losing the 4th bar pretty soon. I haven't had the update yet. I assume they'll make me get it before doing a warranty replacement but I thought it would be a good experiment to drop the 4th bar first and see what happens. My commute is going to be tough come winter at this rate so hoping for a replacement.
 
CarlAZ said:
Just noticed the 1st bar drop a couple of days ago. 2017 SL model. Only have about 8800 miles and owned almost 1 year. This is way sooner then I expected. I have used QC less then 5 times and mostly using L2 charging. Should I be worried about this?

You live in Phoenix? So the vehicle gets hot a lot, which degrades the battery faster. As well, if you're charging above 80% regularly, it will degrade a lot faster, regardless of whether it's a fast charge or not.

High temps + high state of charge is what mostly degrades batteries, which is the current conventional wisdom.
 
CarlAZ said:
Just noticed the 1st bar drop a couple of days ago. 2017 SL model. Only have about 8800 miles and owned almost 1 year. This is way sooner then I expected. I have used QC less then 5 times and mostly using L2 charging. Should I be worried about this?


QC is not the devil you apparently think it is. High SOC is what I would worry about. Unless you are driving 80+miles a day, I would not charge to full, EVER.

In your heat, keep it below 80%, 70% if you can manage it.
 
Oh Dear,
I guess I have been going along "fat and happy".. thinking the battery woes were a thing of the past, when I got the
new 30KwH battery and a 2106.
I drifted in.. trying to get info on the new Battery Re-Programing... afraid it was a scheme to change the bar parameters to reduce warranty replacements.
Still not sure what to think.. except that in my driving 1%=1 mile quite reliably.. except for hill climbing... and I have learned what to expect there. I can also use 1 hour charging = 25% ( except that last 5 or 10% which I will rarely ever do).

I do not worry about fast DC charging to 85-90%.. bat temp almost always no more than 4 green bars..
I have seen 3/4 up the green scale only once.. when outside temps were above 85.

I have only 6250 miles in 22 months... hate to see it start to crap in the 3rd year.

We could still do all our usual trips with just half battery capacity.. but the run home is a climb of 1000 ft..
and routinely takes more than double the output compared to the flats.

Can I refuse the battery program update.. ?

I thought Hx was something that Leaf Spy calculates... not sure why the program change effects it ???

How concerned do I need to be about SOH.. which I did see drop fairly early on.

I routinely charge to of 85-88 % Target is 85.
I never let is sit discharged.. and only charge to 90-100 just before leaving on a longer than usual trip.

10-15% freeway.. not over 65 in general. Plenty of hills. very little stop and go.

everything is ultra groovey.. and I just don't worry.

Pollyanna ? :? :?
 
Any comparison with Tesla.. has to take into account how many of them BURN.

Search the internet, and you cannot find a picture of a leaf which has caught on fire

Factor that into your battery degradation comparison..! :D
 
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