2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

vthokia said:

I live in Phoenix so can't do anything about A/C.

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Of course you can !

vthokia said:

Oils4AsphaultOnly said:

vthokia said:

I have 2016 Leaf with 30 KWH Battery. Last week I got 8 bars left on battery so took it to the dealer.
Dealer upgraded the Firmware per the last Leaf Recall and which increased the bar to 10.
So I did not get a new battery. But the firmware did not update battery capacity.
This morning I was at 100% and after driving for around 25 miles, I was at 60% Battery.
What are my options to get a new battery as I cannot commute to work with this capacity anymore.

I live in Phoenix. Are there any other Phoenix Leaf Users? May be we can start a separate thread. If we have enough data, we can get into litigation for Arizona Leaf Owners.

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don't know if litigation will do you any good, but at 10 bars, you're not too far off from re-qualifying for the replacement.


As for not being able to commute with that capacity, how were you able to commute when it first lost the 4th bar? You should still get roughly the same range (assuming your driving style and weather didn't change significantly) as when you had lost 3 bars.

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I believe they have changed the Algorithm to calculate the Capacity Bars with their latest BMS Update. So it is going to take much longer to loose that 4th bar. I am going to call them Today and ask if I can get the information on that change.

I was taking internal roads and avoid freeways, that helped. I was expecting that after I loose the 4th bar, I will get a new battery.

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Yeah, we've been discussing the firmware update and how we'd have to get that done first (it's a service recall, so you don't have to wait until 4bars are lost before getting it done). Almost everyone has seen their range restored to the level indicated by the lost bars. So you'll just have to go back to driving the back-roads again until that 4th bar is lost again. Hopefully in less time this time.

vthokia said:

I have 2016 Leaf with 30 KWH Battery. Last week I got 8 bars left on battery so took it to the dealer.
Dealer upgraded the Firmware per the last Leaf Recall and which increased the bar to 10.
So I did not get a new battery. But the firmware did not update battery capacity.
This morning I was at 100% and after driving for around 25 miles, I was at 60% Battery.
What are my options to get a new battery as I cannot commute to work with this capacity anymore.

I live in Phoenix. Are there any other Phoenix Leaf Users? May be we can start a separate thread. If we have enough data, we can get into litigation for Arizona Leaf Owners.

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If you want to come to north Phoenix/Cave Creek area, I could look at LEAF Spy data and measure energy required to charge from dead to full to see what your actual battery capacity is now. I am curious to see how your 2016 battery compares to my 2015 battery. The full discharge/recharge cycle might help the LBC (lithium battery controller is Nissan's name for the battery management system or BMS) recalibrate itself to the real battery capacity.

Hello guys. I got a 2016 30kw leaf 13,000 ish miles and just lost 3rd bar. I’ll get replacement with in two months.

Vasmi said:

Hello guys. I got a 2016 30kw leaf 13,000 ish miles and just lost 3rd bar. I’ll get replacement with in two months.

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Have you had the firmware update?

https://flipthefleet.org/2018/30-kwh-nissan-leaf-firmware-update-to-correct-capacity-reporting/

If a 16-17 car comes in for a warranty claim, and has not had the update, the first thing the servicing dealer will do is apply the update to see if the vehicle still qualifies.

It's the 1st of Oct. and I'm just over 50K on the car and 5K on the new battery. 79.15 AH, SOH =99.59% Hx = 91.80% 362 GID's. I've lost 3 AH off the peak value but since GID's is limited by software to 363 GID's max and the battery is still over 79 AH there's no noticeable loss of range. The battery does seem to be following the same pattern as the old one. I'm still hoping the new firmware will change the degradation curve but it's still too early to tell if that's going to be the case. I've just gone through a hot summer so we'll see how the battery does in cooler weather. I'd like to see the battery last for at least 80K more mi. If the software fix is real then that should be the case. If not. then it would be nice to have it poop out by 90-95K so I can get that third battery under warranty. Worst case is the battery craps out just after I hit 100K and I have to trade it in for next to nothing and buy something else (probably not a Nissan). I usually put more than 150K and closer to 200K before buying a new car. If I can only get 5 1/2 or 6 yrs out of the car, that will be extremely disappointing to me. I'd like to have at least a couple of years without a car payment.

I'm at 32k miles on my 2017, old firmware, and I'd say I'm down about 5-7 percent capacity based on actual, observed range. It could be better, but I'm not unhappy.

mn4az said:

Rather than having folks deal with the crappy formatting I'm keeping my numbers at the below URL. As of now it seems that I am degrading at a faster clip than before the software upgrade. :-( However, that could mean lots of things. By this time next year things could be much different (hopefully) or not (kinda expecting it).

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AmMHBcyzLWAx7IAfhTHs_dPgwtVW6w

No matter what, it's serving it's 9+ year commuter car purpose for us: 3 years of us driving it before the kids drive it 6+ years around town for high school and extracurricular activities.

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URL has been updated. Minnesota driver. Dec '15 manufacturing date.

Date: 10/4/2018
SOH: 89.3%
Mileage: 37231

The 100% charge after software upgrade was....

Date: 6/23/2018
SOH: 93.44%
Mileage: 32830

I'm losing ~0.9% SOH every 1k miles. On track for battery warranty replacement at around 84K miles (about 3 years from now at current driving habits). If that happens, I'd be totally cool with a new battery about 5.5 years into the ownership of the car to get me another 5-ish years.

mn4az said:

mn4az said:

Rather than having folks deal with the crappy formatting I'm keeping my numbers at the below URL. As of now it seems that I am degrading at a faster clip than before the software upgrade. :-( However, that could mean lots of things. By this time next year things could be much different (hopefully) or not (kinda expecting it).

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AmMHBcyzLWAx7IAfhTHs_dPgwtVW6w

No matter what, it's serving it's 9+ year commuter car purpose for us: 3 years of us driving it before the kids drive it 6+ years around town for high school and extracurricular activities.

Click to expand...

URL has been updated. Minnesota driver. Dec '15 manufacturing date.

Date: 10/4/2018
SOH: 89.3%
Mileage: 37231

The 100% charge after software upgrade was....

Date: 6/23/2018
SOH: 93.44%
Mileage: 32830

I'm losing ~0.9% SOH every 1k miles. On track for battery warranty replacement at around 84K miles (about 3 years from now at current driving habits). If that happens, I'd be totally cool with a new battery about 5.5 years into the ownership of the car to get me another 5-ish years.

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That would be awesome!!

This is what I was hoping for on my 2018 but sadly after 12,000 miles, its looking like I will be around 85% @ 100,000 miles. Damn....

DaveinOlyWA said:

mn4az said:

mn4az said:

Rather than having folks deal with the crappy formatting I'm keeping my numbers at the below URL. As of now it seems that I am degrading at a faster clip than before the software upgrade. :-( However, that could mean lots of things. By this time next year things could be much different (hopefully) or not (kinda expecting it).

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AmMHBcyzLWAx7IAfhTHs_dPgwtVW6w

No matter what, it's serving it's 9+ year commuter car purpose for us: 3 years of us driving it before the kids drive it 6+ years around town for high school and extracurricular activities.

Click to expand...

URL has been updated. Minnesota driver. Dec '15 manufacturing date.

Date: 10/4/2018
SOH: 89.3%
Mileage: 37231

The 100% charge after software upgrade was....

Date: 6/23/2018
SOH: 93.44%
Mileage: 32830

I'm losing ~0.9% SOH every 1k miles. On track for battery warranty replacement at around 84K miles (about 3 years from now at current driving habits). If that happens, I'd be totally cool with a new battery about 5.5 years into the ownership of the car to get me another 5-ish years.

Click to expand...

That would be awesome!!

This is what I was hoping for on my 2018 but sadly after 12,000 miles, its looking like I will be around 85% @ 100,000 miles. Damn....

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Just move to Phoenix. :lol:

johnlocke said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

mn4az said:

URL has been updated. Minnesota driver. Dec '15 manufacturing date.

Date: 10/4/2018
SOH: 89.3%
Mileage: 37231

The 100% charge after software upgrade was....

Date: 6/23/2018
SOH: 93.44%
Mileage: 32830

I'm losing ~0.9% SOH every 1k miles. On track for battery warranty replacement at around 84K miles (about 3 years from now at current driving habits). If that happens, I'd be totally cool with a new battery about 5.5 years into the ownership of the car to get me another 5-ish years.

Click to expand...

That would be awesome!!

This is what I was hoping for on my 2018 but sadly after 12,000 miles, its looking like I will be around 85% @ 100,000 miles. Damn....

Click to expand...

Just move to Phoenix. :lol:

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Yeah, not likely to work. Jennifer in Phoenix is at 94% SOH and is over (probably well over by now) 30,000 miles. She likely won't make the warranty either but still a long way to go. Very interested in seeing where she is at by end of Summer 2019

just to report that my '17 leaf got a firmware update today. I don't have any leafspy data but I feel the update added about 15 - 20 miles to the remaining range reading. the longest range I saw in last summer was about 125 miles with a full charge. Today the range is around 105 with a full charge before the update, and showing 102 remaining + 22 driven right after update. The car was built 11/2016 and I got it in march 2017, now has 20250 miles on it.

^^^
With all due respect, guess-o-meter values are of little value.

Short of Leaf Spy info, more helpful would be starting and ending % state of charge values.

cwerdna said:

^^^
With all due respect, guess-o-meter values are of little value.

Short of Leaf Spy info, more helpful would be starting and ending % state of charge values.

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To put it another way, the update may have been written primarily to produce the above changes in displayed estimated range and to "restore" lost capacity bars. The real questions are:

* Is the car's actual range and capacity restored?

* Is this a lasting improvement, or a temporary, illusory one?

* Does this update fix ALL of the 30kwh packs, or just some of them?

LeftieBiker said:

cwerdna said:

^^^
With all due respect, guess-o-meter values are of little value.

Short of Leaf Spy info, more helpful would be starting and ending % state of charge values.

Click to expand...

To put it another way, the update may have been written primarily to produce the above changes in displayed estimated range and to "restore" lost capacity bars. The real questions are:

* Is the car's actual range and capacity restored?

* Is this a lasting improvement, or a temporary, illusory one?

* Does this update fix ALL of the 30kwh packs, or just some of them?

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Range is restored to "normal" degraded value. This is not a battery fix, its a SW fix.

Range is temporary as batteries will degrade but should not happen immediately (except maybe in Phoenix ) like a BMS reset would see.

I have to think that not all packs needed the update. Mine did not seem to. Why, I dk. Could be my driving /charging habits? I did average over 100 miles per day during the short time I had it. Despite the first 3 months of mostly home only charging and 3 semi long inactive periods in 14 months, I still averaged 3-4 QCs per day for the 14 months I had it. But even at 30,000 miles I saw stats near 100% of new so??

I actually think the GOM is extremely accurate (ducking under the table now). If I see X range remaining and continue to drive at or below that speed until the car dies on the side of the road, it will have been almost spot on. I think the perception of it being unreliable is mainly due to that fact that a typical use case does NOT involve arriving at a charger with "---" on the GOM even though that technically is the capability of the car. Seeing triple digits at 100% is at least looking up I think, especially with some miles on the clock.

this morning after a full home L2 charge, the range shows 125 miles

amissionleaf said:

just to report that my '17 leaf got a firmware update today. I don't have any leafspy data but I feel the update added about 15 - 20 miles to the remaining range reading. the longest range I saw in last summer was about 125 miles with a full charge. Today the range is around 105 with a full charge before the update, and showing 102 remaining + 22 driven right after update. The car was built 11/2016 and I got it in march 2017, now has 20250 miles on it.

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this morning (the day after SW update) the GOM shows 125 miles range after a full home L2 charge,

ddh1313 said:

I actually think the GOM is extremely accurate (ducking under the table now). If I see X range remaining and continue to drive at or below that speed until the car dies on the side of the road, it will have been almost spot on. I think the perception of it being unreliable is mainly due to that fact that a typical use case does NOT involve arriving at a charger with "---" on the GOM even though that technically is the capability of the car. Seeing triple digits at 100% is at least looking up I think, especially with some miles on the clock.

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Because of the way it works, it will work well for some driving scenarios, like yours. Essentially, your last few minutes of driving before shutting the car off at home happen to use virtually the same KWHs per mile as your overall average. It will not, however, work well for most driving scenarios, for most people.