knightmb
Posts: 420
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:41 pm
Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414897
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:07 pm

Certainly do!
http://nissanleaf.guru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6

forestrider wrote:
knightmb wrote:Go 12 volt lithium and don't look back. Replaced my 12v lead when it was going bad earlier this year (2013 model also) and now on two winters with my 12 volt lithium and not a single blip regardless of charging cable plugged in for days or not. I can come out in below freezing weather and the battery still has a 13.5 v reading.


That's a pretty great review. Do you have a link to a battery of the size and type you purchased, please?

forestrider
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:37 am
Delivery Date: 04 Nov 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Dec 23, 2015 1:13 pm

Thank Knight, that's a great write up!

Brock, I started on that one thread but those first replies were pretty discouraging......going deeper though you provide some great insight there. Thanks for that.

I just went ahead and ordered the Optima Yellow 51r that is a factory fit for the car. Good to know about the bigger SLA option as well, thanks for that. Knight, your Li-Ion looks really cool, I've used them in my cycles and love 'em. I may do that next time, but it was a bit pricey for me this time around.

I imagine you guys were correct in your speculations on internal resistance and such. Also, SOC has a huge impact on how much current can flow during charging, obviously, but I imagine the small, compromised battery was really never taking much charge. Voltage might be up, but it couldn't deliver any current to speak of.

Anyway, I think I've worked myself through this one. A bit silly from a design standpoint that this is an issue. Like I said, I design multi-voltage/multi-source/ AC/DC systems for boats that involve many different sized and voltage battery banks and AC gennys and shore power and on and on. There are solutions for all of this stuff, this really shouldn't be an issue in this car. Oh well.

forestrider
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:37 am
Delivery Date: 04 Nov 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:03 pm

Well, crap. The upgraded Leaf spy pro won't clear the codes. The Ipad version drop down menu that is supposed to let you select codes to delete is unresponsive, so you can only keep clearing the same one over and over. That's new, as of last night's upgrade.

Ugh. Stranded, dealer is 120 miles away.

TimLee
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:40 am
Delivery Date: 17 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2026
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:30 am

forestrider wrote:... The upgraded Leaf spy pro won't clear the codes.
...
Ugh. Stranded, dealer is 120 miles away.

What codes did dead 12V create that had to be cleared to get the LEAF functional :?:

I have experienced dead 12V at least three times on 2011 and nothing had to be done other than jump the LEAF off and then let the main pack power power the DC to DC power supply to charge the 12V back up (happens pretty quick starting around 100 amps) and then to get 12V back to properly charged put it on a battery maintainer for long time.

A few that experienced dangerous braking behaviour or mysterious LEAF shutdown may have had codes, but most dead 12V haven't created codes :?:

I didn't think the LEAF had any Low Voltage Lockout.
If you leave the LEAF on past high voltage pack disconnect, the 12V stays in service till it gets to a non-functional point.
Might light interior light down to 8.5V, but LEAF will not start unless it is above something in 10.0V to 10.8V range.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

forestrider
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:37 am
Delivery Date: 04 Nov 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Fri Dec 25, 2015 11:30 am

Thanks for the input Tim. Here's some of the codes:

Image

forestrider
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:37 am
Delivery Date: 04 Nov 2015

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:50 pm

TimLee wrote:
forestrider wrote:... The upgraded Leaf spy pro won't clear the codes.
...
Ugh. Stranded, dealer is 120 miles away.



I didn't think the LEAF had any Low Voltage Lockout.
If you leave the LEAF on past high voltage pack disconnect, the 12V stays in service till it gets to a non-functional point.
Might light interior light down to 8.5V, but LEAF will not start unless it is above something in 10.0V to 10.8V range.


I wasn't referring to a function of the LEAF per se, Just relating that in my experience most VSR/ACR type paralleling solutions from Cooper Bussmann and the like typically lockout at low voltage. I think it's half to protect the good bank and also that the sense logic goes haywire, even on the dual sensing vsr units.

eccentricorbit
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:58 am
Delivery Date: 25 Jan 2017

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:03 am

Hey y'all, i was having this problem as well. It didn't seem like the software was sufficiently charging the pb-acid to cover the full range of my usage patterns and sometimes it would go dead.

I started monitoring it with a battery monitor plugged into the cig. lighter and got a feel for the 12V charging algorithm - and would sometimes click on the wiper blades just to kick it up to 14.4V for a while..

I just took the car in to get recall work done (pass. airbag, etc). One of the items they listed was "reprogram VCM". The service guy didn't know what this did, but when i got it back, the 12V charge algorithm is different - and better. It now does a 14.4V charge most of the time during drive, where before it would hold at 13V.

I haven't had the problem again yet, but it's only been a few days - i'll let y'all know if i do, but at least it seems better.

Snlj
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:55 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Mar 2017
Leaf Number: 416281
Location: Madison, WI

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:03 pm

Hi Everybody,

Looks like this thread is due for a bump, which I may as well provide with my little story of dead 12V batteries.

A week into owning our 2013 SL, my wife arrived at the car after work to find it completely dead. No locks, no lights, no anything. A jump started everything up just fine. The traction battery was somewhere around 20% charged at the time.

The next week I brought it into the dealer and had them test the battery. It came back a little weak, so I had them replace it with a new one.

One week later, I came out to the new battery dead just like the first time. The traction battery was similarly at around 20%.

Neither time was the car charging, in accessory mode, lights left on, OBDII port being used, nor key in the car. The dealer has it right now, and is going to keep it overnight to test it when it's asleep. They did mention that there were no error codes when they checked.

The suggestion from the tech was that perhaps the short daily drives of a couple of miles or so were not enough to charge back up the 12V during operation. This seems a little wrong, and wanted to know what anybody thinks of this explanation. We've been charging once a week at L2, driving in either 2-3 mile or 10-20 mile spurts, with the 12V turning up dead two times out of two just before recharging.

This is a stupid problem to have. Can anyone help? I'd like to at least have other suggestions/questions for the dealership when I talk to them again tomorrow.

Thanks!

ElectricEddy
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:42 pm
Delivery Date: 31 Oct 2016
Leaf Number: 313506
Location: Nanaimo, B.C.

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:42 pm

Snlj wrote:Hi Everybody,

Looks like this thread is due for a bump, which I may as well provide with my little story of dead 12V batteries.

A week into owning our 2013 SL, my wife arrived at the car after work to find it completely dead. No locks, no lights, no anything. A jump started everything up just fine. The traction battery was somewhere around 20% charged at the time.

The next week I brought it into the dealer and had them test the battery. It came back a little weak, so I had them replace it with a new one.

One week later, I came out to the new battery dead just like the first time. The traction battery was similarly at around 20%.

Neither time was the car charging, in accessory mode, lights left on, OBDII port being used, nor key in the car. The dealer has it right now, and is going to keep it overnight to test it when it's asleep. They did mention that there were no error codes when they checked.

The suggestion from the tech was that perhaps the short daily drives of a couple of miles or so were not enough to charge back up the 12V during operation. This seems a little wrong, and wanted to know what anybody thinks of this explanation. We've been charging once a week at L2, driving in either 2-3 mile or 10-20 mile spurts, with the 12V turning up dead two times out of two just before recharging.

This is a stupid problem to have. Can anyone help? I'd like to at least have other suggestions/questions for the dealership when I talk to them again tomorrow.

Thanks!

On my 13 SL the 12V battery would have to be hooked up to a trickle charger on a regular basis (monthly) as the charging algorithm was not adequate , ( this was purchased new and remained the same for 3 plus years).
Many threads and various problems on this. I suggest you measure with a meter and hook up a trickle charger or optimizer when the resting voltage reaches 12.6V.
The charging algorithm on my 16SL is much improved and have only had to trickle charge twice now in 5 months.
Pearl White Sl
mfd date 09/16

baustin
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:07 pm

Snlj wrote:Hi Everybody,

Looks like this thread is due for a bump, which I may as well provide with my little story of dead 12V batteries.

A week into owning our 2013 SL, my wife arrived at the car after work to find it completely dead. No locks, no lights, no anything. A jump started everything up just fine. The traction battery was somewhere around 20% charged at the time.

The next week I brought it into the dealer and had them test the battery. It came back a little weak, so I had them replace it with a new one.

One week later, I came out to the new battery dead just like the first time. The traction battery was similarly at around 20%.

Neither time was the car charging, in accessory mode, lights left on, OBDII port being used, nor key in the car. The dealer has it right now, and is going to keep it overnight to test it when it's asleep. They did mention that there were no error codes when they checked.

The suggestion from the tech was that perhaps the short daily drives of a couple of miles or so were not enough to charge back up the 12V during operation. This seems a little wrong, and wanted to know what anybody thinks of this explanation. We've been charging once a week at L2, driving in either 2-3 mile or 10-20 mile spurts, with the 12V turning up dead two times out of two just before recharging.

This is a stupid problem to have. Can anyone help? I'd like to at least have other suggestions/questions for the dealership when I talk to them again tomorrow.

Thanks!


The 12v battery has a constant drain on it. Not a large one, but a constant one, as do all modern cars loaded with computers. The 12v battery is charged whenever the traction battery is charged. It is also topped off when the car is in run mode. The Leaf charging algorithm is not the best, and driving many short trips and only charging once a week work against you. The tech may not understand why, but he is not wrong.

Since you have a 2013, set the charge timer for 80% and charge at least every other day. Charge it to 100%, at least once a month (I would suggest every two weeks), to keep the cells balanced on the traction battery. Lithium batteries don't do well with constant low or high charge levels. It is better for the battery to have a 10 minute charge cycle every night that brings it up to 80%, than it is to let the level get low and only charge once a week.

It is also possible you have something failing, that is drawing a higher load than it should. One user reported an ABS unit that started having a constant draw on the 12v system that never stopped, even when the car was off. If you have not upgraded your telematics unit, it could also be causing an excess drain trying to connect to a network that is no longer active.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

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