swaltner
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri May 24, 2013 10:05 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Jul 2013
Location: Wichita, KS

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:08 pm

dhanson865 wrote:
swaltner wrote:I lost the first capacity bar on my Leaf yesterday morning. Details as follows:

2013 Leaf SV
Manufactured: Jul 2013
Delivered: July 2013 (factory order, so was on the dealers lot for less than 24 hours)
Max gid reading ever recorded: 267
12->11 bars on: 2013-09-06 - 36,147 miles, 240 gids
Location: Wichita, KS
Charging routine: Mostly 80% charge except for 100% charges right before departure (regularly during winter and infrequent at other times)


I assume you mean you lost that bar on Sept-6 2016 not 2013?

I added it to the WIKI but didn't have a VIN for it.


Yes, Sep-6-2016 was the when it lost the first capacity bar.

My VIN ends in 413595.
2013 Leaf SV

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11809
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:34 am

elec7ric wrote:I got my new 2013 SL (manufactured 5/2013 ) on 9/30/2013. Lost my first bar 5/2015, second bar 9/2015, third bar 5/2016 and forth bar 8/23/2016 (31,400 miles). First 21 months mostly charged L1/L2 to 80% (home and work). My drive was 55 miles round trip with about 75% highway. As capacity started to go away, I had to charge more often to 100%, however, I tried my best to keep it fully charged as little as possible (extreme Phoenix temperatures).

I wanted to delay replacement even if I was getting at work in the morning with about 12 miles left (from full charge). Just before 3 years, on 9/26 (not charged for third battery check), I was told that the delay in getting a new battery can be 3 months. With that in mind, I asked for the battery to be ordered.

In a month, the capacity loss increased a very few miles (somehow compensated by no AC need in the morning). That was enough to make me accept the replacement, when I was told Friday, 10/28, that my new battery arrived (less than 5 weeks). I dropped my car that afternoon. I got a 9/14 S Leaf as a loaner - similar driving to mine. Saturday afternoon I had back my leaf, with the new battery (AutoNation Nissan Tempe).

I am waiting for more data, but last night I was able to go on highway (15 miles one way, 202 San Tan/I10) both ways, with 61% SOC left (from 100%; in the weekends, driving is 75 - 80 miles/h to keep with the flow). Before, I would have been like 25% at half point - no way to go back on highway.


the "it will be 60-90 days for your replacement pack to show up" is the standard Nissan disclaimer. Most of what I heard puts the real time at 4-10 days.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11809
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:37 am

drees wrote:
silverone wrote:Don't get me wrong, I understand there HAS to be some degradation based on battery chemistry, but it's just not being reported as a significant event on these cars.

INL has tested the Volt and found that when testing the battery out of the car, capacity is definitely being lost.

For example:
https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-button/2013-chevrolet-volt

After 130k miles and 3 years, the 4 Volts they tested about 9-10% capacity loss.

Compare this to the '13 LEAFs which lost 14-16% in about a year and 15k miles.

FWIW, the '13 Ford Focus EVs they tested also lost about 10% capacity in about a year and 12k miles, despite having thermal management.

Whatever secret sauce GM has in their LG packs, it appears to be working.



sorry but comparing 100% EVs to a gasser with a pack is never going to work
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11809
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:45 am

arnis wrote:Same happened with me. It went down 3-4% SOH during summer. Down to 90%.
As soon as autumn came it started going up again. Now it is stable at 94%. Whole month.

It appears health comes back when battery temp drops, something like 10*C doing that.
67000km for now. 2014 Leaf.


any change in driving patterns or charging patterns that might play a part in the increase?

For me; the weather change means deeper cycling when charging which can boost the numbers as well. here is my 2013 S build date 11/13 at 44,500 miles.
44500 mile stat small.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

arnis
Posts: 713
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:21 pm
Delivery Date: 23 Jul 2014
Leaf Number: 015896
Location: Estonia, Europe

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Nov 06, 2016 9:16 am

No. Charging/driving pattern did not change. DC charging will push up Hx (and maybe SOH) for a while
but not in this case.
I'm pretty sure just temperature does that. Year before I also noticed a heavy drop in spring.
Did not see the rise as I wasn't LeafSpy user that time.
It might also just be a number and not real capacity difference. BMS is complicated :)
Short range EVs <30kWh -- Medium range: 30-60kWh -- Long range: >60kWh
Charging: Trickle <3kW -- Normal 3-22kW -- Fast 50-100kW -- Supercharging >100kW

nickjensen
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:17 am
Delivery Date: 17 Oct 2016
Leaf Number: 416318
Location: Longmont, CO
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:38 pm

I just purchased my 2013 SV last month. The manufacture date is 8/2013 and was originally sold in 10/2013 from Boulder Nissan in Boulder, CO, which is where I bought it as well with 28,500 miles on it. I've put another 1200 on it since then, but it still has all 12 bars. LeafSpy gives the following:

AHr = 60.07
SOH = 91%
GIDS = 261 at indicated 100% charge on the dash, 97.2 SOC in LeafSpy

Overall I think this will be a great buy for me at $9,000.

Phatcat73
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm
Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:33 am

Anyone else have such a drastic drop, particularly in a mild climate, such as Chicago?

01/17/16 - 33,212 miles, AHr 63.65; SOH 97% Batt Temp 36; ;
09/04/16 - 38,540 miles, AHr 54.16; SOH 82% (1st bar lost on this date)

Nearly 10 Ahr points in 8 months & 5000 miles, however with cooler fall temps, the degradation rate has slowed significantly - now around 53 AHr. If this trend continues next summer, I may qualify for a new battery.
2016 SV; purchased 20-Jan-17, <5k, 98% SOH; 01-Apr-17
2013 SV; purchased 6-March-13 44k, 81% SOH; 3-Apr-17
2015 S; purchased 29-July-14, moved to AZ Nov-2014, 19k, 83% SOH; 30-Mar-17
(LD storage) 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid 4x2), 101k

tkdbrusco
Posts: 507
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:46 am
Delivery Date: 31 Aug 2014
Contact: Website Facebook Twitter

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:00 pm

Phatcat73 wrote:Anyone else have such a drastic drop, particularly in a mild climate, such as Chicago?

01/17/16 - 33,212 miles, AHr 63.65; SOH 97% Batt Temp 36; ;
09/04/16 - 38,540 miles, AHr 54.16; SOH 82% (1st bar lost on this date)

Nearly 10 Ahr points in 8 months & 5000 miles, however with cooler fall temps, the degradation rate has slowed significantly - now around 53 AHr. If this trend continues next summer, I may qualify for a new battery.


I noticed in your signature that you have a 2015 with about 53 Ahr. Have you lost a bar on that car yet?
2015 Leaf S w/QC Package. San Jose, CA
www.theevconsultant.com

DaveinOlyWA
Gold Member
Posts: 11809
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:23 am

Phatcat73 wrote:Anyone else have such a drastic drop, particularly in a mild climate, such as Chicago?

01/17/16 - 33,212 miles, AHr 63.65; SOH 97% Batt Temp 36; ;
09/04/16 - 38,540 miles, AHr 54.16; SOH 82% (1st bar lost on this date)

Nearly 10 Ahr points in 8 months & 5000 miles, however with cooler fall temps, the degradation rate has slowed significantly - now around 53 AHr. If this trend continues next summer, I may qualify for a new battery.


any change in driving or charging habits? what is max TBs you saw over the Summer? I had drop over same time period 13S build date 11/13 but only went to low 57's after low usage covering a 1½ weeks. Normal usage brought me back to mid 58's
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles. 2016 S30; 18,297 miles. 363 GIDs, Ahr 82.34, Hx; 100.00% kwh 28.1 QCs 165, L2's 190
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bpnugent
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:26 am
Delivery Date: 05 Oct 2013
Leaf Number: 417259
Location: Northern Colorado

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:34 pm

I just lost my first capacity bar on my 2013 Nissan Leaf. Here are my stats:

MY13 (took delivery 10/13)
Location: Northern Colorado
Date of loss: 2/6/17
Mileage at loss: 51604
AHr: 55.18
SOH: 84%
Hx: 81.57
L1/L2 charges: 3029
QC: 37

I try to leave my LEAF outside at night to cool off the battery. We moved to charging to 100% in the morning every weekday (just prior to departure) in the last year or so to make up for capacity loss.

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