baustin
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:19 am

SageBrush wrote:
baustin wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
How often do you recharge ? By your data it looks improbably frequent.

I have it set to charge every day, but it is on a timer, so it counts once when plugged in and once again when the charging timer activates (even if the battery doesn't need charged).

The vehicle was made in January 2013, so the cells inside the battery are the 2012 chemistry. The change in environment, bringing it to Las Vegas, accelerated the degradation. There appears to be a distance component to the bar dropping algorithm in the Leaf. I drove it a lot during the first two years, and not as much this year, which seems to have delayed the drop. I expected it to happen months ago, and it may have, if I had been driving it more.

Charges up to 80 or 100% every day ?
Thanks for the charge counter tip. That probably explains why I sometimes see unusually high counts in other posts.


I started out charging to 80% every day, and 100% when needed for range and periodically to balance the cells. Now it is 100% every day, and that is no longer enough to get me across the valley and back.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

mtndrew1
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:47 pm

I bought a ‘13 Leaf S+QC about ten days ago for $8,000 to get me through until my Model 3 shows up. The Leaf was manufactured 1/13 and was missing three capacity bars with 36,715 miles on the odometer. I called 877-NOGASEV before taking delivery and confirmed the capacity warranty was valid and in effect until 3/31/18 or 60,000 miles.

The Leafspy stats at delivery were 42.63 Ah 65% SOH with 2 QCs and 1355 L1/L2. Carfax says it was a Hawaii car before heading to auction after the lease.

Today at lunch it dropped the fourth bar after a quick charge. The stats have been bouncing around a bit since I’ve had the car (Ah range of 41.58 to 42.65, SOH 63-65%) but at the bar drop LeafSpy read 42.60Ah/65%SOH/58.45%Hx with 15 QCs and 1367 L1/L2 at 37,254 miles.

I don’t need much range day to day and my inclination is to wait until March 20th or so before filing a warranty claim. The Facebook group seems to say that’s stupid and Nissan will look for excuses, therefore I should make the claim ASAP. Thoughts?
2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

Phatcat73
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm
Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:39 pm

with only 5 months left and entering the cooler months, I say just get it scheduled now. Also, at the moment Nissan is replacing them with new packs. At some point they announced that they're only responsible to bring you up to "better than 4 bars of loss".

If it was my car, I'd get it done now. It'll also take a few weeks to get the battery into the dealer.

Congrats on winning a new battery.

Cheers.
2016 SV; purchased 20-Jan-17, <5k, 98% SOH; 01-Apr-17
2013 SV; purchased 6-March-13 44k, 81% SOH; 3-Apr-17
2015 S; purchased 29-July-14, moved to AZ Nov-2014, 19k, 83% SOH; 30-Mar-17
(LD storage) 2009 Ford Escape Hybrid 4x2), 101k

mtndrew1
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:39 pm

I have an appointment this Saturday morning with Nissan to have the car looked at. Fingers crossed.
2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

baustin
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:14 am

I took mine in today to get the warranty replacement started. Initially, they told me it would take about two hours. When I got there, all they said they needed was to plug in the Consult Tool and get a battery status printout of only 8 bars showing. They're supposed to call tomorrow, after it's ordered, to tell me when the replacement battery will arrive.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

baustin
Posts: 561
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:21 pm

baustin wrote:I took mine in today to get the warranty replacement started. Initially, they told me it would take about two hours. When I got there, all they said they needed was to plug in the Consult Tool and get a battery status printout of only 8 bars showing. They're supposed to call tomorrow, after it's ordered, to tell me when the replacement battery will arrive.


Replacement traction battery arrived on October 19th and installed this morning. I took this reading just before I left the dealership.

Oct 20, 2017 - AHr=65.40, SOH=100%, Hx=100.00%, odo=25,771 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2262
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

achewt
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:45 am
Delivery Date: 09 May 2014
Location: Nelson, BC

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:44 pm

silverone wrote:I was surprised I didn't see much discussion about these swings or the effect of cold ambient temperature, because they'd be critical in evaluating a used car for someone in a cold climate. Battery temperatures didn't swing as wildly or seem to have as much of an effect.

I have Leaf Spy running on a spare phone almost all the time and logging to Dropbox. Although these are my max/min readings over a timeframe, none are really outliers from the surrounding data. It seems to take about 3 days for readings to stabilize after a big ambient temperature swing.

I've also seen GIDs at 100% charge swing accordingly from 259 to 284 over the same timeframe, although they seem to max out at 284 for any AHr reading above the high 65 range.

Based on the way the data is trending for my car, I may have a low enough AHr reading by mid summer to lose a bar after showing 103+ Hx at times in the winter! Perhaps if things continue I'll make and publish a trend of the data.


I have definitely seen a trend of Ahr/SOH swinging fairly consistently with ambient temperature since I started tracking data in November 2015. I first posted about it in my regular 6 month cost update Nov 2016 http://kootenayevfamily.ca/cost-update- ... 2-5-years/ (scroll down to the header on LeafSpy). The pattern continued through last winter, noted at http://kootenayevfamily.ca/cost-update- ... 117000-km/ in May of this year. I saw the trend continue into the summer - in June 2017 my Ahr reached 55.89 and 85% SOH again (same as from the previous August, after going to a high of 93%.

I finally lost my first bar after being below 85% for a few months on August 31, 2017. Stats as follows:
Ahr=54.50, SOH=83%, Hx=79.72%, odo=127,413km, 53 QCs
(I haven't posted the L1/L2s, because I often use the charge timer, which inflates this value substantially, counts once when you plug in, another when it starts charging)

I'm now 4,000 km further along here into October, and my stats are now back to (as of Oct 10):
Ahr=55.68, SOH=85%, Hx=82.63%, odo=131,562km
The lost bar hasn't re-appeared... but I'll be curious to see if it does!

We had a nice hot summer from June through first two weeks of September (+30C most days), then high 20C throughout September, and only recently has it cooled down and become rainy. Start here -> http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_da ... 7&Month=6#, and click on the next month button to flip through and get an idea of the temps the car sits in all day long in a baking asphalt parking lot. At night, it is in a carport that is built into north-facing hillside, so it does get a chance to cool down usually to 5 or 6 bars, but each day was up to 7. Now with the cool weather in October, starting each day with 4 bars, and after charging for a few hours just before I leave work, it is back up to 5 bars.

TLDR; - in my experience, you can only trend your own personal LeafSpy data year-over-year with roughly similar climate conditions. So I'll carry on and expect to see 87-88% SOH by November, where it will plateau for a few months, then drop right back down in the spring and reach a low by the end of summer 2018. I'm going to take a stab at 80% (assuming I continue with similar commute).
Ocean Blue 2014 SL, 133,000km as of mid-Oct 2017, back up to 85% (from low of 83%!) SOH
1 bar lost Aug 31/17 @ 54.5Ahr 83%SOH 79.72%Hx 127,413km
Commuting 142km round-trip; level 2 at home, level 1 at work
http://kootenayEVfamily.ca

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12402
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:47 am

baustin wrote:
baustin wrote:I took mine in today to get the warranty replacement started. Initially, they told me it would take about two hours. When I got there, all they said they needed was to plug in the Consult Tool and get a battery status printout of only 8 bars showing. They're supposed to call tomorrow, after it's ordered, to tell me when the replacement battery will arrive.


Replacement traction battery arrived on October 19th and installed this morning. I took this reading just before I left the dealership.

Oct 20, 2017 - AHr=65.40, SOH=100%, Hx=100.00%, odo=25,771 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2262


Exercise the pack! Get a good start in life. Ahr should be 67.36 and Hx will bloat to 105ish

Glad to see the VERY quick turnaround!
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

mtndrew1
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:49 pm

I took my car into the dealer for its appointment this morning and the battery check came back all five stars of course with 4 capacity bars missing.

Then the service writer came back and said the odometer had been rolled back and the car really had 60,129 miles on it despite the odometer showing 37,500! Yikes!

The Carfax report and Nissan's database show the last service visit in July of 2017 with ~37,000 miles on the odometer and as it's technically impossible to drive a Nissan Leaf 25,000 miles in ten weeks I asked if the OBD tool was ever wrong. They confirmed that it's sometimes incorrect. LeafSpy, Carfax, and the Nissan service database all align with the visible odometer so the dealer is going to call Nissan on Monday and see what's up.

Apparently this dealer has had at least two other (non-Leaf) Nissans erroneously show a dramatically higher odometer readings on the tech tool as opposed to the dash reading so I'll wait until Monday's results from Nissan corporate before freaking out and confronting the selling dealer and Carfax.

The dealer says that if Nissan corporate goes by the dash odometer reading then they'll order a replacement battery for the car on Monday and it'll arrive "in four to six weeks" which seems to be the standard response. The service writer did say that they've been arriving faster than that, however. Fingers crossed for Monday.
2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

silverone
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:29 pm
Delivery Date: 03 Jan 2017
Location: Eastern OH

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:54 pm

achewt wrote:I have definitely seen a trend of Ahr/SOH swinging fairly consistently with ambient temperature since I started tracking data in November 2015. I first posted about it in my regular 6 month cost update Nov 2016 http://kootenayevfamily.ca/cost-update- ... 2-5-years/ (scroll down to the header on LeafSpy). The pattern continued through last winter, noted at http://kootenayevfamily.ca/cost-update- ... 117000-km/ in May of this year. I saw the trend continue into the summer - in June 2017 my Ahr reached 55.89 and 85% SOH again (same as from the previous August, after going to a high of 93%.

I finally lost my first bar after being below 85% for a few months on August 31, 2017. Stats as follows:
Ahr=54.50, SOH=83%, Hx=79.72%, odo=127,413km, 53 QCs
(I haven't posted the L1/L2s, because I often use the charge timer, which inflates this value substantially, counts once when you plug in, another when it starts charging)

I'm now 4,000 km further along here into October, and my stats are now back to (as of Oct 10):
Ahr=55.68, SOH=85%, Hx=82.63%, odo=131,562km
The lost bar hasn't re-appeared... but I'll be curious to see if it does!

We had a nice hot summer from June through first two weeks of September (+30C most days), then high 20C throughout September, and only recently has it cooled down and become rainy. Start here -> http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_da ... 7&Month=6#, and click on the next month button to flip through and get an idea of the temps the car sits in all day long in a baking asphalt parking lot. At night, it is in a carport that is built into north-facing hillside, so it does get a chance to cool down usually to 5 or 6 bars, but each day was up to 7. Now with the cool weather in October, starting each day with 4 bars, and after charging for a few hours just before I leave work, it is back up to 5 bars.

TLDR; - in my experience, you can only trend your own personal LeafSpy data year-over-year with roughly similar climate conditions. So I'll carry on and expect to see 87-88% SOH by November, where it will plateau for a few months, then drop right back down in the spring and reach a low by the end of summer 2018. I'm going to take a stab at 80% (assuming I continue with similar commute).


Thank you for posting as well as the detail you've put into data collection.

My climate is remarkably similar to yours based on temperatures, with yours being a little warmer in summer and cooler in spring/fall. Winters appear approximately the same. Thanks to wunderground.com for helping me translate metric units to freedom units for comparison :) My annual distance driven is also similar.

While I don't anticipate making it to 70,000+ miles before losing my first bar, your year-over-year data suggests that my first bar may last well into next summer. After a wild spring, my data has settled into an Hx and SOH around 89 as well as AHrs in the 57.5 to 59 range. Winter temperatures should pump up my readings significantly, although I'm sure I'll never approach the middle 60s in AHrs again.

I still maintain based on this data swing based on ambient/battery temperatures that it would be difficult to evaluate a Leaf's battery condition in winter - below 40 degrees F - based on juiced readings. This would make it hard to buy a used Leaf and know battery condition from November-April north of the 37th parallel outside of the Pacific Northwest.

Achewt, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see you regain your lost bar briefly when your ambient temperatures maintain around 0C and a battery temperature of not more than 15C.
2013 SL with Premium package - build date 5/13. 12 bar car with 47,000 miles and counting... Trying to nurse 12 bars to 60,000 miles and beyond if possible!

2014 Volt - 46,000+ miles

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