baustin
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:10 am

SageBrush wrote:
baustin wrote:Oct 12, 2017
Fourth bar finally dropped on the way home after running some errands. Plugged it in to charge and then took a reading. Appointment to start warranty replacement scheduled for 17 October 2017.

The vehicle was manufactured in January 2013, spent it first two years in Georgia, was auctioned after lease return and brought to Las Vegas. I got it in March 2015. It dropped the first bar in October 2015, the second bar in June 2016, the third bar in November 2016, and the fourth bar in October 2017.

Oct 12, 2017 - AHr=36.81, SOH=56%, Hx=49.75%, odo=25,670 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2242
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.17, SOH=58%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2176
Sep 15, 2017 - AHr=38.60, SOH=59%, Hx=51.70%, odo=25,517 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2175
Aug 12, 2017 - AHr=39.25, SOH=60%, Hx=53.34%, odo=25,451 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2119
May 15, 2017 - AHr=40.96, SOH=62%, Hx=55.96%, odo=25,169 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1989
Jan 09, 2017 - AHr=42.69, SOH=65%, Hx=58.59%, odo=24,787 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1874
Jun 24, 2016 - AHr=47.74, SOH=73%, Hx=66.57%, odo=23,745 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1569
Apr 24, 2016 - AHr=48.58, SOH=74%, Hx=68.12%, odo=23,323 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1478
Feb 23, 2016 - AHr=50.11, SOH=76%, Hx=70.96%, odo=22,874 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1393
Dec 30, 2015 - AHr=51.40, SOH=78%, Hx=73.35%, odo=22,503 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1302
Oct 11, 2015 - AHr=52.06, SOH=79%, Hx=74.56%, odo=21,536 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=1145
Jul 24, 2015 - AHr=55.14, SOH=84%, Hx=80.29%, odo=19,765 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=926
May 16, 2015 - AHr=57.28, SOH=87%, Hx=84.50%, odo=19,338 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=788
Mar 27, 2015 - AHr=58.57, SOH=89%, Hx=87.04%, odo=18,539 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=701


How often do you recharge ? By your data it looks improbably frequent.

By the way, I graphed your data. No obvious rhyme or reason to when you lost capacity

Image


I have it set to charge every day, but it is on a timer, so it counts once when plugged in and once again when the charging timer activates (even if the battery doesn't need charged).

The vehicle was made in January 2013, so the cells inside the battery are the 2012 chemistry. The change in environment, bringing it to Las Vegas, accelerated the degradation. There appears to be a distance component to the bar dropping algorithm in the Leaf. I drove it a lot during the first two years, and not as much this year, which seems to have delayed the drop. I expected it to happen months ago, and it may have, if I had been driving it more.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

cwerdna
Posts: 7914
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:16 am

^^^
Yep, as baustin notes, there are quirks w/the L1/L2 count. I usually point folks to viewtopic.php?p=452126#p452126 on that.

Congrats on making it in time w/the crap chemistry! You will be yet another hot climate data point for the (hopefully) lizard battery.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 2486
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:21 am

baustin wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
How often do you recharge ? By your data it looks improbably frequent.

I have it set to charge every day, but it is on a timer, so it counts once when plugged in and once again when the charging timer activates (even if the battery doesn't need charged).

The vehicle was made in January 2013, so the cells inside the battery are the 2012 chemistry. The change in environment, bringing it to Las Vegas, accelerated the degradation. There appears to be a distance component to the bar dropping algorithm in the Leaf. I drove it a lot during the first two years, and not as much this year, which seems to have delayed the drop. I expected it to happen months ago, and it may have, if I had been driving it more.

Charges up to 80 or 100% every day ?
Thanks for the charge counter tip. That probably explains why I sometimes see unusually high counts in other posts.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

baustin
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:19 am

SageBrush wrote:
baustin wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
How often do you recharge ? By your data it looks improbably frequent.

I have it set to charge every day, but it is on a timer, so it counts once when plugged in and once again when the charging timer activates (even if the battery doesn't need charged).

The vehicle was made in January 2013, so the cells inside the battery are the 2012 chemistry. The change in environment, bringing it to Las Vegas, accelerated the degradation. There appears to be a distance component to the bar dropping algorithm in the Leaf. I drove it a lot during the first two years, and not as much this year, which seems to have delayed the drop. I expected it to happen months ago, and it may have, if I had been driving it more.

Charges up to 80 or 100% every day ?
Thanks for the charge counter tip. That probably explains why I sometimes see unusually high counts in other posts.


I started out charging to 80% every day, and 100% when needed for range and periodically to balance the cells. Now it is 100% every day, and that is no longer enough to get me across the valley and back.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

mtndrew1
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:47 pm

I bought a ‘13 Leaf S+QC about ten days ago for $8,000 to get me through until my Model 3 shows up. The Leaf was manufactured 1/13 and was missing three capacity bars with 36,715 miles on the odometer. I called 877-NOGASEV before taking delivery and confirmed the capacity warranty was valid and in effect until 3/31/18 or 60,000 miles.

The Leafspy stats at delivery were 42.63 Ah 65% SOH with 2 QCs and 1355 L1/L2. Carfax says it was a Hawaii car before heading to auction after the lease.

Today at lunch it dropped the fourth bar after a quick charge. The stats have been bouncing around a bit since I’ve had the car (Ah range of 41.58 to 42.65, SOH 63-65%) but at the bar drop LeafSpy read 42.60Ah/65%SOH/58.45%Hx with 15 QCs and 1367 L1/L2 at 37,254 miles.

I don’t need much range day to day and my inclination is to wait until March 20th or so before filing a warranty claim. The Facebook group seems to say that’s stupid and Nissan will look for excuses, therefore I should make the claim ASAP. Thoughts?
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range

2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC sold with warranty pack replacement

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

Phatcat73
Posts: 462
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm
Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:39 pm

with only 5 months left and entering the cooler months, I say just get it scheduled now. Also, at the moment Nissan is replacing them with new packs. At some point they announced that they're only responsible to bring you up to "better than 4 bars of loss".

If it was my car, I'd get it done now. It'll also take a few weeks to get the battery into the dealer.

Congrats on winning a new battery.

Cheers.
2018 Tesla Model 3 AWD - Delivery due end of September 2018
2016 SV; leased 20-Jan-17, 18k, 87% SOH; 4-July-18
2015 S; purchased 29-July-14, moved to AZ Nov-2014, 22k, 82% SOH; 01-Mar-18
2009 Ford Escape Hybrid 4x2, 111k & going strong!

mtndrew1
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:39 pm

I have an appointment this Saturday morning with Nissan to have the car looked at. Fingers crossed.
2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range

2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC sold with warranty pack replacement

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

baustin
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:14 am

I took mine in today to get the warranty replacement started. Initially, they told me it would take about two hours. When I got there, all they said they needed was to plug in the Consult Tool and get a battery status printout of only 8 bars showing. They're supposed to call tomorrow, after it's ordered, to tell me when the replacement battery will arrive.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

baustin
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:21 pm

baustin wrote:I took mine in today to get the warranty replacement started. Initially, they told me it would take about two hours. When I got there, all they said they needed was to plug in the Consult Tool and get a battery status printout of only 8 bars showing. They're supposed to call tomorrow, after it's ordered, to tell me when the replacement battery will arrive.


Replacement traction battery arrived on October 19th and installed this morning. I took this reading just before I left the dealership.

Oct 20, 2017 - AHr=65.40, SOH=100%, Hx=100.00%, odo=25,771 miles, QC=4 L1/L2=2262
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

achewt
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:45 am
Delivery Date: 09 May 2014
Location: Nelson, BC

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:44 pm

silverone wrote:I was surprised I didn't see much discussion about these swings or the effect of cold ambient temperature, because they'd be critical in evaluating a used car for someone in a cold climate. Battery temperatures didn't swing as wildly or seem to have as much of an effect.

I have Leaf Spy running on a spare phone almost all the time and logging to Dropbox. Although these are my max/min readings over a timeframe, none are really outliers from the surrounding data. It seems to take about 3 days for readings to stabilize after a big ambient temperature swing.

I've also seen GIDs at 100% charge swing accordingly from 259 to 284 over the same timeframe, although they seem to max out at 284 for any AHr reading above the high 65 range.

Based on the way the data is trending for my car, I may have a low enough AHr reading by mid summer to lose a bar after showing 103+ Hx at times in the winter! Perhaps if things continue I'll make and publish a trend of the data.


I have definitely seen a trend of Ahr/SOH swinging fairly consistently with ambient temperature since I started tracking data in November 2015. I first posted about it in my regular 6 month cost update Nov 2016 http://kootenayevfamily.ca/cost-update- ... 2-5-years/ (scroll down to the header on LeafSpy). The pattern continued through last winter, noted at http://kootenayevfamily.ca/cost-update- ... 117000-km/ in May of this year. I saw the trend continue into the summer - in June 2017 my Ahr reached 55.89 and 85% SOH again (same as from the previous August, after going to a high of 93%.

I finally lost my first bar after being below 85% for a few months on August 31, 2017. Stats as follows:
Ahr=54.50, SOH=83%, Hx=79.72%, odo=127,413km, 53 QCs
(I haven't posted the L1/L2s, because I often use the charge timer, which inflates this value substantially, counts once when you plug in, another when it starts charging)

I'm now 4,000 km further along here into October, and my stats are now back to (as of Oct 10):
Ahr=55.68, SOH=85%, Hx=82.63%, odo=131,562km
The lost bar hasn't re-appeared... but I'll be curious to see if it does!

We had a nice hot summer from June through first two weeks of September (+30C most days), then high 20C throughout September, and only recently has it cooled down and become rainy. Start here -> http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_da ... 7&Month=6#, and click on the next month button to flip through and get an idea of the temps the car sits in all day long in a baking asphalt parking lot. At night, it is in a carport that is built into north-facing hillside, so it does get a chance to cool down usually to 5 or 6 bars, but each day was up to 7. Now with the cool weather in October, starting each day with 4 bars, and after charging for a few hours just before I leave work, it is back up to 5 bars.

TLDR; - in my experience, you can only trend your own personal LeafSpy data year-over-year with roughly similar climate conditions. So I'll carry on and expect to see 87-88% SOH by November, where it will plateau for a few months, then drop right back down in the spring and reach a low by the end of summer 2018. I'm going to take a stab at 80% (assuming I continue with similar commute).
Ocean Blue 2014 SL, 133,000km as of mid-Oct 2017, back up to 85% (from low of 83%!) SOH
1 bar lost Aug 31/17 @ 54.5Ahr 83%SOH 79.72%Hx 127,413km
Commuting 142km round-trip; level 2 at home, level 1 at work
http://kootenayEVfamily.ca

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