achewt
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:45 am
Delivery Date: 09 May 2014
Location: Nelson, BC

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:29 pm

silverone wrote:
achewt wrote:I have definitely seen a trend of Ahr/SOH swinging fairly consistently with ambient temperature since I started tracking data in November 2015. I first posted about it in my regular 6 month cost update Nov 2016 http://kootenayevfamily.ca/cost-update- ... 2-5-years/ (scroll down to the header on LeafSpy). The pattern continued through last winter, noted at http://kootenayevfamily.ca/cost-update- ... 117000-km/ in May of this year. I saw the trend continue into the summer - in June 2017 my Ahr reached 55.89 and 85% SOH again (same as from the previous August, after going to a high of 93%.

I finally lost my first bar after being below 85% for a few months on August 31, 2017. Stats as follows:
Ahr=54.50, SOH=83%, Hx=79.72%, odo=127,413km, 53 QCs
(I haven't posted the L1/L2s, because I often use the charge timer, which inflates this value substantially, counts once when you plug in, another when it starts charging)

I'm now 4,000 km further along here into October, and my stats are now back to (as of Oct 10):
Ahr=55.68, SOH=85%, Hx=82.63%, odo=131,562km
The lost bar hasn't re-appeared... but I'll be curious to see if it does!

We had a nice hot summer from June through first two weeks of September (+30C most days), then high 20C throughout September, and only recently has it cooled down and become rainy. Start here -> http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate_da ... 7&Month=6#, and click on the next month button to flip through and get an idea of the temps the car sits in all day long in a baking asphalt parking lot. At night, it is in a carport that is built into north-facing hillside, so it does get a chance to cool down usually to 5 or 6 bars, but each day was up to 7. Now with the cool weather in October, starting each day with 4 bars, and after charging for a few hours just before I leave work, it is back up to 5 bars.

TLDR; - in my experience, you can only trend your own personal LeafSpy data year-over-year with roughly similar climate conditions. So I'll carry on and expect to see 87-88% SOH by November, where it will plateau for a few months, then drop right back down in the spring and reach a low by the end of summer 2018. I'm going to take a stab at 80% (assuming I continue with similar commute).


Thank you for posting as well as the detail you've put into data collection.

My climate is remarkably similar to yours based on temperatures, with yours being a little warmer in summer and cooler in spring/fall. Winters appear approximately the same. Thanks to wunderground.com for helping me translate metric units to freedom units for comparison :) My annual distance driven is also similar.

While I don't anticipate making it to 70,000+ miles before losing my first bar, your year-over-year data suggests that my first bar may last well into next summer. After a wild spring, my data has settled into an Hx and SOH around 89 as well as AHrs in the 57.5 to 59 range. Winter temperatures should pump up my readings significantly, although I'm sure I'll never approach the middle 60s in AHrs again.

I still maintain based on this data swing based on ambient/battery temperatures that it would be difficult to evaluate a Leaf's battery condition in winter - below 40 degrees F - based on juiced readings. This would make it hard to buy a used Leaf and know battery condition from November-April north of the 37th parallel outside of the Pacific Northwest.

Achewt, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see you regain your lost bar briefly when your ambient temperatures maintain around 0C and a battery temperature of not more than 15C.


You're welcome! I agree with you on your assessment WRT evaluating potential used vehicles. Cheers.
Ocean Blue 2014 SL, 133,000km as of mid-Oct 2017, back up to 85% (from low of 83%!) SOH
1 bar lost Aug 31/17 @ 54.5Ahr 83%SOH 79.72%Hx 127,413km
Commuting 142km round-trip; level 2 at home, level 1 at work
http://kootenayEVfamily.ca

mtndrew1
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:52 pm

The dealer was reading my odometer from the Nissan tool in kilometers which is why it said I was over 60,000.

As such I’m within the warranty period with four bars lost and the battery has been ordered for my car. “Four weeks.”
2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

BuckMkII
Posts: 178
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 8:04 am
Location: Seattle

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:13 am

Just out of curiosity: if you buy a used Leaf and get down to eight bars within five years, can Nissan deny the replacement if the previous owner didn't do the stupid annual battery check?

Matters not to me, since the only way my battery would be that bad within the five year clock is if I set the car on fire...
2013 SV no QC, manufactured July 2013
car grew up in San Jose CA, purchased 5/31/17 in Seattle
on 6/16/17: AHr = 56.4; SOH = 86%; Hx = 84.3; ODO = 39,250
on 9/29/17: AHr = 55.3; SOH = 84%; Hx = 81.6; ODO = 41,492
bar 12 lost 8/21/17

SeasonsAfter
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:25 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Feb 2015

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:04 pm

rick64 wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
rick64 wrote:2013 Leaf down to 8 bars. Bought it used in Feb 2016 with 11 bars/36k miles. We are in NorCal, summer temps get to 100 and cars sits in heat at work.

now at 45k miles. Service appointment is Thursday afternoon.

Yay! What was the build month? It's on the driver's side door sticker. I guess you're in a hotter part of Nor Cal.

Can you add your car to http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real ... 3.75.25.29? Thanks!


car was built 01/13

yeah we live in Brentwood, CA. Summers can get pretty hot, rest of year is very mild though.

and I will add the car to the wiki


Nice job on getting a new battery! I think I may not make the warranty period. I have 4 months left but it seems like the canary batteries degrade much more than the newer packs.

Manufacture date 1/2013
In service date 2/21/2013
AHr - 47.21
SOH 72%
Hx - 65.58%
ODO 33k
205 GIDs on full charge
3rd battery drop a year ago

I live in San Diego so the heat could help me in the winter months. Seems with the data on 4th bar drops is I have too far to go...

It seems like the goodwill Nissan had for the 2011 and 2012 battery packs received some out of warranty assistance. Some indicate they paid a fraction of a new battery 10-20%. Now with the 2013 it seems like Nissan is making a line in the sand. If your battery doesn't drop 4 bars at the end of the 5 years/60k, there is no help what so ever...

2013 Nissan Leafs unite!! Any others out there in my same situation we need to stand up. This isn't right. They get assistance and now we are out of luck?
2013 Leaf
9 of 12 bars remaining (waiting for that 4th bar drop)
manufacture date 1/2013
in service date 2/21/2013
AHr 46.94
SOH 71%
Hx 65.09%
33k on ODO
204 GIDs on full charge

mtndrew1
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 am
Location: Gardena CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:45 pm

BuckMkII wrote:Just out of curiosity: if you buy a used Leaf and get down to eight bars within five years, can Nissan deny the replacement if the previous owner didn't do the stupid annual battery check?

Matters not to me, since the only way my battery would be that bad within the five year clock is if I set the car on fire...


I specifically asked NOGASEV about this and their response was something like “the prior owner’s maintenance habits have no effect on the capacity warranty.” I took that to mean that the battery check history is irrelevant.
2013 Nissan Leaf S + QC

2015 Kia Soul EV+ Lease returned 10/14/17 45,000 miles w/ 13.8% degradation.

mjblazin
Posts: 218
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:52 pm
Delivery Date: 11 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 405999
Location: Dallas, TX

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:33 pm

Received new 24 KW battery and PDM (power distribution module). Delivered battery 3 weeks after approval/order. One day to install. LeafSpy Pro indicates status as expected. Now it really is good car for fooling around city with maybe one charge a week.
—————————+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Corp Nissan approved my replacement (they now call it “condemnation). I get it in 3 weeks.
————————————-

2013 1st quarter - dropped 4th bar with AHr 41.058, HX 56.01, 20,139 Miles. Going to dealer on Monday for verification. Bought used from same dealer at 12,700 miles. I did battery check every time I visited dealer since March 2015 (state inspections, recall, telematics upgrade). All clean, last one included note from tech that I get a battery after losing one more bar.

My drop seemed overdue based on AHr, probably because of low mileage. I drive it several times a week with trips under 6 miles. I kept car covered from sun, but still exposed to ambient temperature in Texas. Longest drive was 25 miles. Only recently started using QC (EVGo) since Chargepoint not in this suburb.
Last edited by mjblazin on Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2013 SL Blue Ocean
Bought used, March 2015 12,764 miles
11/12 bars. 235 gids 18.2 kWh
Appears fully loaded
Condo home, Using public charge except in emergency
Dallas, TX downtown, shaded non-temp controlled garage

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12402
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:36 am

BuckMkII wrote:Just out of curiosity: if you buy a used Leaf and get down to eight bars within five years, can Nissan deny the replacement if the previous owner didn't do the stupid annual battery check?

Matters not to me, since the only way my battery would be that bad within the five year clock is if I set the car on fire...


no
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12402
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:39 am

SeasonsAfter wrote:
Nice job on getting a new battery! I think I may not make the warranty period. I have 4 months left but it seems like the canary batteries degrade much more than the newer packs.

Manufacture date 1/2013
In service date 2/21/2013
AHr - 47.21
SOH 72%
Hx - 65.58%
ODO 33k
205 GIDs on full charge
3rd battery drop a year ago

I live in San Diego so the heat could help me in the winter months. Seems with the data on 4th bar drops is I have too far to go...

It seems like the goodwill Nissan had for the 2011 and 2012 battery packs received some out of warranty assistance. Some indicate they paid a fraction of a new battery 10-20%. Now with the 2013 it seems like Nissan is making a line in the sand. If your battery doesn't drop 4 bars at the end of the 5 years/60k, there is no help what so ever...

2013 Nissan Leafs unite!! Any others out there in my same situation we need to stand up. This isn't right. They get assistance and now we are out of luck?


you don't have a Canary battery.

it would appear you probably don't drive enough to make it. 33 k in nearly 5 years will make it a tough challenge.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SeasonsAfter
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:25 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Feb 2015

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:06 am

Why don't you think I have the canary battery? From my reading in these forums is if the manufacture date is between 1/2013-3/2013 is that is the older technology battery.

Please explain. I know with my numbers is in four months having the AHr drop to 42 will be nearly impossible. HX as well.

Oh well, I am hoping Nissan can find it in their hearts to help out an owner when the bar drops after the warranty period is over. Getting a replacement battery for 10-20% of the cost would be great!

The Leaf is great, I love not paying for gas or oil changes or smog checks. Teslas are way too expensive and it seems like they have all kinds of maintenance issues.

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automot ... otors.html
2013 Leaf
9 of 12 bars remaining (waiting for that 4th bar drop)
manufacture date 1/2013
in service date 2/21/2013
AHr 46.94
SOH 71%
Hx 65.09%
33k on ODO
204 GIDs on full charge

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7686
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:19 pm

you don't have a Canary battery.



The pack that I call the "Canary pack" was made from 2011 through March of 2013. In 2013 the case was different, but since it appears to be chemically identical I consider the early build 2013 Leafs to have Canary packs.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium and no QC, a 2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, and 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”