hmmwv
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:27 am
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:30 pm

Finally dropped my first bar, 43,125 miles, 54.85 AHr, SOH 83%, Hx79% . This is over two months after my SOH dropped below 85%.
2013 LEAF SL w/Premium Pkg, Brilliant Silver, 45,113 miles, LeafSpy: 56.28 AHr, SOH 86%, Hx82.37% as of 11/20/2017, 11 bars, 27 QC, 1830 L2/L2

leafdriving
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:25 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Oct 2017

Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:39 pm

Hi everyone. I lost my first bar yesterday. Kinda bummed out since I didn’t expect it to happen so soon.
Here’s what I get from LeafSpy Lite:
AHr= 54.98 SOH= 84% SOC= 70.9% Hx= 81.09% 384.78V -0.45A odo= 23,798 3 QCs & 1417 L1/L2s

The build date is 10/13 and I bought it used in February of this year. I don’t drive much; I’ve only put 2900 miles on it since I bought it and I have to admit I baby the car. The car’s original owner lived in Cupertino, CA and I’m in east bay (SF bay area). I don’t know much else about the previous owner’s habits other than location and what LeafSpy provided me today. I also assume he always charged it to 100% since the “Long-life mode” was turned off when I got it.

Here are my habits: 80% mode on, usually keep the batter around 50%, occasionally get down to 15-20% remaining and then L1 charge it at the latest the next day, and never QC it.
We did have a pretty hot summer this year (hit over 110 a couple times) and I wasn’t able park the car in the shade. The highest I ever saw the battery temp was 7 bars and that was about 3 times.

I've read a lot of posts of folks who are in hot climates losing their first bar at much higher miles. Based on the info I’ve provided can any one shed some light on why I’ve probably lost my first bar already? I’m surprised given the build date, miles, almost no QCs, and the climate the car has spent it’s entire life. Part of me feels “it is what it is” but I can’t help but think that the battery is going to quickly degrade and I’ll hit under 9 bars soon after the warranty expires in 12/2018.

Thanks guys!

baustin
Posts: 621
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:00 pm

Batteries degrade from time and number of cycles, and heat accelerates the degradation. Just losing the first bar on a four year old battery is about what is expected. It is better for the battery to sit between 20% and 80% when idle. There is nothing wrong with charging to 100%, and it needs done regularly to balance the cells. Just don't let it sit at 100% for extended periods, especially in high heat.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8891
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:36 pm

It was left at 100% charge in the heat for extended periods. I've taken care of mine since the end of the first year, and it's likely at about 86% SOH now anyway. Hot Summers and plain old age take a toll. QCs may actually help battery health, BTW, if done when the pack is cool.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 7914
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:49 pm

leafdriving wrote:We did have a pretty hot summer this year (hit over 110 a couple times) and I wasn’t able park the car in the shade. The highest I ever saw the battery temp was 7 bars and that was about 3 times.

The above didn't help.

Also, the temp bars are crap, with huge overlapping ranges: http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Batt ... ture_Gauge. You can get the real temps from the sensors via Leaf Spy.
LeftieBiker wrote:It was left at 100% charge in the heat for extended periods....
Hot Summers and plain old age take a toll.

Probably yes on the first. The previous person may not have cared too much about preserving the life of the battery nor known the proper steps nor monitored pack temps w/Leaf Spy. If they were leasing w/no intent to buy.... there's not much of a reason for many to care.

My 5/2013 built '13 Leaf which was previously serviced in Santa Clara and registered in Saratoga (that's about all I know) that I bought used in July 2015 still has all 12 bars but is creeping towards losing 1. Fortunately, during hot weekdays this past summer, I was able to keep the car in the shade and usually either in a cooler underground parking garage or slightly undergound portion of the parking structure near my current building @ work. From what I can tell from ambient temps and battery temps, it can stay below 80 F there even when it's 95+ F outside at ground level.

My own stats as of last night:
AHr: 55.64
SOH: 85%
Hx: 82.52% (I've not seen Hx get down to 82.xx% until real recently)
odo: 48,735 miles
QCs: 0 (mine has no CHAdeMO inlet)
L1/L2s: 3172 (yes, this has known quirks and I do use the 80% timer w/midnight to midnight trick)

I'll be surprised if I still haven't lost a capacity bar before May 2018.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cwerdna
Posts: 7914
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013-2014 bar losers and capacity losses

Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:03 pm

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=24697 on Oct 8, 2017 reported a bar lost the day before:
leafdriving wrote:I lost my first bar yesterday. Kinda bummed out since I didn’t expect it to happen so soon.
Here’s what I get from LeafSpy Lite:
AHr= 54.98 SOH= 84% SOC= 70.9% Hx= 81.09% 384.78V -0.45A odo= 23,798 3 QCs & 1417 L1/L2s

The build date is 10/13 and I bought it used in February of this year. I don’t drive much; I’ve only put 2900 miles on it since I bought it and I have to admit I baby the car. The car’s original owner lived in Cupertino, CA and I’m in east bay (SF bay area). I don’t know much else about the previous owner’s habits other than location and what LeafSpy provided me today. I also assume he always charged it to 100% since the “Long-life mode” was turned off when I got it.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Labgenerator
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:05 pm
Delivery Date: 17 Sep 2015
Leaf Number: 415324

Lost First Battery Bar

Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:06 am

After 2 years of driving my 2013 Leaf (purchased used in sept 2015) I lost my first battery bar at 35,358 miles. I knew it was coming as a lot of post say people lose it around this mileage. Hopefully my model 3 will be available before I lose to many more as I can't afford to lose to much range with my current job.
2013 Nissan Leaf (Blue) - purchased 9/17/15 (used) Miles 17,000 at purchase
Currently at 20k

cwerdna
Posts: 7914
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Lost First Battery Bar

Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:58 pm

Mods: Can this post be moved to viewtopic.php?f=30&t=18269?

We don't need new threads each time someone loses a capacity bar.

'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

leafdriving
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:25 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Oct 2017

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:43 pm

Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate you guys sharing your knowledge and experiences. A couple more questions:

1. If I take care of the car now will the battery degrade based on how I use/treat it? Or is the "damage" already done and the battery will continue to degrade quickly (I say quickly because I see a lot of people with my LeafSpy numbers but at 35-45k miles)?

2. Anyone know how much just plain age affects these batteries (for example: will a 2014 year old leaf with say 15k miles have much lower AHr than a 2017 with 15k miles, both in same climate and charging habits?

LeftieBiker
Posts: 8891
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Lost my first bar- Your thoughts please.

Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:08 pm

Care and, more importantly, lower temps will slow degradation. The packs degrade much more slowly in cool temps than in hot weather. How you treat the pack matters, but it matters less than how hot it gets.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”