Lambtron
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:39 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 6977
Location: North Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:26 pm

lorenfb wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:
Lambtron wrote:
Can this, while being connected to battery positive and Chassis ground be used at the same time as Traction battery charging or will it screw something up? IE: Do they need to be charged separately?


I charge them together all the time. No problem.


Hopefully whatever charger/maintainer's is used, that the output 'floats' (isolated) relative to the 110V line.



Thanks all, Until now I hadn't needed external charging of the 12 volt, However I
Woke up Thursday night to the heavy smell of battery acid in the garage. The 12v was boiling and the case swollen and at 197*. Battery was an O'reilly extreme @ 2 yrs old this week. They replaced it under full warranty. The car is driven 30 miles every day and no codes are present, so I'm assuming it may have had a sulfated a cell.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7394
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:39 pm

That sounds a lot more like overcharging than a sulfated cell.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

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RegGuheert
Posts: 5622
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:13 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:That sounds a lot more like overcharging than a sulfated cell.
Yep. Most likely due to a shorted cell: the other five cells then get overcharged.

How powerful was this charger, anyway? It's best to use something with a very low current limit, like 1.5 A.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

Lambtron
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:39 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 6977
Location: North Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:20 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:That sounds a lot more like overcharging than a sulfated cell.
Yep. Most likely due to a shorted cell: the other five cells then get overcharged.

How powerful was this charger, anyway? It's best to use something with a very low current limit, like 1.5 A.


It was never on a charger.It was all leaf. I'm considering it now to prevent future events if this was due to sulphation. I ran the leafspy when it happened, The 12 volt battery read 10 volts and all cockpit gauges seemed fine. The only code was something in reference to the Brake booster voltage. (Probably from the low batt Voltage. I pulled the battery out and took it outside fearing an explosion. I then hosed it down trying to cool it but it seemed to just keep getting hotter. On placing the new one in service we monitored the charge current and voltages and after the initial 14 volts for 15 second charge the car settled at 12.96 @1.36 amps. I drove the car another fifty miles while monitoring leafspy,no changes. By the way, Leafspy was within .1v reading of my Fluke scopemeter. I am hoping it was just the battery.
Last edited by Lambtron on Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7394
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:23 pm

Reg and I are likely still right. One cell shorted out, and the car tried to charge the battery to the full 6 cell voltage, eventually causing the electrolyte to boil. It's ironic, considering how little the cars usually charge that battery.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

Lambtron
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 12:39 pm
Delivery Date: 05 Aug 2011
Leaf Number: 6977
Location: North Las Vegas, Nevada

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:37 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:Reg and I are likely still right. One cell shorted out, and the car tried to charge the battery to the full 6 cell voltage, eventually causing the electrolyte to boil. It's ironic, considering how little the cars usually charge that battery.


Well in any case, I installed the charge quikconnect cable for my .75A tender / maintainer in the charge port door in case I decide to use it.

User avatar
RegGuheert
Posts: 5622
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:12 am
Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:13 pm

Lambtron wrote:I am hoping it was just the battery.
That's what it sounds like to me.

Be sure to thoroughly hose off the motor compartment in the LEAF in case any sulfuric acid (either in liquid or gaseous form) got on any of the surfaces in there. That stuff will eat through just about anything!
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

LeftieBiker
Posts: 7394
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:52 pm

Lambtron wrote:
LeftieBiker wrote:Reg and I are likely still right. One cell shorted out, and the car tried to charge the battery to the full 6 cell voltage, eventually causing the electrolyte to boil. It's ironic, considering how little the cars usually charge that battery.


Well in any case, I installed the charge quikconnect cable for my .75A tender / maintainer in the charge port door in case I decide to use it.


That's well worth the extra installation work because of the resulting ease of use.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

lorenfb
Posts: 1407
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:22 pm

Given all the hysteria on the Leaf's 12V battery, you'd think there would be answer to this one:

LeftieBiker wrote:
The problem with the above is that the car makes no effort to FULLY charge the 12 volt battery even under optimum conditions. It either charges for a fixed amount of time or to a too-low voltage. As a result the 12 volt battery in a pre 2014 will be chronically undercharged unless you use an external charger once or twice a week...


lorenfb wrote:
So the 2014+ Leafs have an improved charging algorithm? Haven't heard of this before, is it posted somewhere?
If so, are the pre-2014 Leaf's capable of having the ECU, e.g. the BMS, responsible for 12 battery charging re-flashed?
My 2013 has never had any 12 volt battery issues and I don't use a maintainer, although my SL with a PV cell
does supply about 50ma in moderate sunlight over the standby battery drain of about 30ma.


Waiting.

GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 1492
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: 12v Battery

Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:06 pm

lorenfb wrote:Given all the hysteria on the Leaf's 12V battery, you'd think there would be answer to this one:

LeftieBiker wrote:
The problem with the above is that the car makes no effort to FULLY charge the 12 volt battery even under optimum conditions. It either charges for a fixed amount of time or to a too-low voltage. As a result the 12 volt battery in a pre 2014 will be chronically undercharged unless you use an external charger once or twice a week...


lorenfb wrote:
So the 2014+ Leafs have an improved charging algorithm? Haven't heard of this before, is it posted somewhere?
If so, are the pre-2014 Leaf's capable of having the ECU, e.g. the BMS, responsible for 12 battery charging re-flashed?
My 2013 has never had any 12 volt battery issues and I don't use a maintainer, although my SL with a PV cell
does supply about 50ma in moderate sunlight over the standby battery drain of about 30ma.


Waiting.


It may depend upon usage patterns, but my 2011 kept its 12-volt battery charged and my 2015 has been keeping its original Nissan 12-volt battery charged. The original battery in the 2011 lasted at least as long as typical OEM batteries last in my climate. The original battery in the 2015 is still OK so it is doing better than normal. I NEVER used an external 12-volt charger on either LEAF, but did have to jump start 2011 and 2015 one time each (left Bluetooth unit plugged in to OBDII port of 2011 while parked for extended time and upgraded telematics unit kept systems awake on 2015 while parked for a few days).
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015

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