dhanson865
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Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: 12v Battery and NOCO Genius G3500/G7200

Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:45 pm

jjeff wrote:[For anyone who lives in the Midwest(MN, WI and maybe other places) Menards(similar to Home Depot or Lowes) has the above 12v charger on sale for the great price of $34.95, regularly the same as Amazon at $59.95. I picked one up(the last one on the shelf as best I could see) and they also had the cheaper version(1.1a regularly $39.95) for $24.99. Great prices IMO, I think it was a sale but it's also possible they are clearancing them out, I don't know. Glad I waited and didn't purchase one at Amazon :)


Menards is in 14 states. I can't think of a reason to avoid them. $35 sounds like a deal.
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joeriv
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Location: Fairfield County CT

Re: 12v Battery

Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:52 pm

Coming up on 3 years with the OEM battery and have been looking around for a "plug and play" lithium - I came across this one:

http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/pro ... n-battery/

Not cheap ($290) but I'd rather pay more for a better solution - anyone have any experience with this brand?
2017 Leaf S with QC, JUN mfg date

baustin
Posts: 525
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:23 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2015
Leaf Number: 402162
Location: North Las Vegas, NV

Re: 12v Battery

Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:14 pm

joeriv wrote:Coming up on 3 years with the OEM battery and have been looking around for a "plug and play" lithium - I came across this one:

http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/pro ... n-battery/

Not cheap ($290) but I'd rather pay more for a better solution - anyone have any experience with this brand?


Are there any issues with the OEM battery causing you to seek a better solution?

Do you periodically check the battery cells and top them off with distilled water?

Unless it is a hot environment, the OEM battery could last up to six years, if properly maintained.

The lithium battery in question is not a 'plug and play' solution, and would pay for three OEM style replacements. What I would consider a better solution than the OEM style, which is actually 'plug and play', is the Optima Yellow Top (D51R) battery, and it is only half the cost of the lithium unit.

I'm still using the original battery in my Leaf. It has about 3.5 years on it, so far, with minimal issues. I had some trouble when I first got the car, but after topping off the cells with distilled water (each down about a third), there have been no issues.
2013 Leaf SV - Cayenne Red - QC Port - LED Headlights

knightmb
Posts: 420
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Delivery Date: 15 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 414897
Location: Franklin, TN

Re: 12v Battery

Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:08 am

baustin wrote:Are there any issues with the OEM battery causing you to seek a better solution?

Do you periodically check the battery cells and top them off with distilled water?

Unless it is a hot environment, the OEM battery could last up to six years, if properly maintained.

The lithium battery in question is not a 'plug and play' solution, and would pay for three OEM style replacements. What I would consider a better solution than the OEM style, which is actually 'plug and play', is the Optima Yellow Top (D51R) battery, and it is only half the cost of the lithium unit.

I'm still using the original battery in my Leaf. It has about 3.5 years on it, so far, with minimal issues. I had some trouble when I first got the car, but after topping off the cells with distilled water (each down about a third), there have been no issues.

Not until recently did I notice that the overflow for acid from the battery drops right down on some bolts and parts of the Leaf frame and front suspension system. I saw this in a 2015 Leaf that a family member owns. We removed the battery, used some baking soda to clean up the acid and neutralize it, but still I think the overflow acid needs to go somewhere else. It really makes the places it lands on look nasty while the rest of the car looks clean and new. So if any issue with the liquid lead batteries, overflow acid is not sent to a good place. That is just my opinion.

My issue with my Leaf years back was that my stock battery was nearly going dead in cold weather. The battery seems healthy on a volt meter, but a capacity test showed over-wise. The stock batteries are rated 36 AH I believe (someone correct me if I remember wrong) but I did the actual 20 hour test and my stock battery was barely hitting 11 AH. While it was still enough to start the Leaf, I had to make sure to drive it at least once every few days or else the battery dies in the winter. The battery was only 2 years old, so I don't know what conditions caused it to perform so poorly. I suspect that and others might feel the same way, that a lot of the Lead batteries in Leaf would also perform poorly in a real capacity test but most drivers use the vehicle frequently enough not to notice.

If you put the stock Lead under a load test, even the new ones only seem to last about 20 to 30 minutes before depleted. The test being, just put the vehicle in standby mode (not accessory mode) and just run the fan on high. When the battery hits depleted (10.5 volts), the Leaf will kick on the large battery to charge it up and flash a single Blue light on the dash while it does. So anyone can do this test without fear of killing the Leaf by accident. It's a low tech way to test.

My stock Lead could only do this about 10 minutes before being depleted. My Lithium can do the same test for nearly 2 hours before hitting the point of needing a recharge.

So while the cost factor can make Lead cheaper to rotate out replacements, I still think Lithium is the perfect match up for this type of vehicle, even given the extra cost. Having one less thing to maintenance is worth the saved time and effort for me. The Leaf had so much work put into making it as maintenance free as possible, seems the battery should join that part one day in the future.

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Stanton
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Re: 12v Battery

Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:03 am

joeriv wrote:Coming up on 3 years with the OEM battery and have been looking around for a "plug and play" lithium - I came across this one:

http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/pro ... n-battery/

Not cheap ($290) but I'd rather pay more for a better solution - anyone have any experience with this brand?


Very similar to what I have in AHr capacity. Don't know how the built-in BMS compares to what I have, but the price is definitely cheaper (by almost half). I highly recommend "getting the lead out".
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Marktm
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Re: 12v Battery

Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:18 pm

joeriv wrote:Coming up on 3 years with the OEM battery and have been looking around for a "plug and play" lithium - I came across this one:

http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/pro ... n-battery/

Not cheap ($290) but I'd rather pay more for a better solution - anyone have any experience with this brand?



I would research the "BPS" concept rather than a full fledged "BMS". As you know, the Lithium technology, like lead acid, uses multiple cells in series to produce the nominal 12 VDC. A true BMS will attempt to keep all cells fairly well balanced. It MAY BE that the "BPS" does nothing more than disconnect the battery if the battery voltage goes either too high of too low. Check it out and let us know.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.
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RegGuheert
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Delivery Date: 16 Mar 2012
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:53 am

RegGuheert wrote:I noticed it had sulfated about 40% after the first couple of years. Since then I have used a desulfating charger to try to recover the original capacity, which I had done as of last year. Now it is down just a bit. I don't know if that can be recovered or not. We'll see.
Just a quick update. I have been pretty consistent this summer about putting the LEAF's 12V battery on the BatteryMinder 1500 whenever it is parked at home. It seems to have eliminated all or nearly all of the lead sulfate which had hardened in the battery. Now the battery will stand at over 12.7V after being charged to full and allowed to stand for a day or so. (In the past, this same battery would droop to 12.4V or so under the same conditions.)
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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JimSouCal
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Re: 12v Battery

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:18 am

RegGuheert wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:I noticed it had sulfated about 40% after the first couple of years. Since then I have used a desulfating charger to try to recover the original capacity, which I had done as of last year. Now it is down just a bit. I don't know if that can be recovered or not. We'll see.
Just a quick update. I have been pretty consistent this summer about putting the LEAF's 12V battery on the BatteryMinder 1500 whenever it is parked at home. It seems to have eliminated all or nearly all of the lead sulfate which had hardened in the battery. Now the battery will stand at over 12.7V after being charged to full and allowed to stand for a day or so. (In the past, this same battery would droop to 12.4V or so under the same conditions.)
Appreciate the update as an encouragement. I've used a CTEK a few times on the weekend. I'd inadvertently left the OBD reader plugged in for 16 day to find a drained 12V battery. With a 2011 wondered if I'd just killed the lead acid battery, but so far, it's holding voltage... Wouldn't want to push it under load though.. We'll see... Thanks..

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RegGuheert
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Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Northern VA

Re: 12v Battery

Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:37 am

JimSouCal wrote:Appreciate the update as an encouragement. I've used a CTEK a few times on the weekend. I'd inadvertently left the OBD reader plugged in for 16 day to find a drained 12V battery. With a 2011 wondered if I'd just killed the lead acid battery, but so far, it's holding voltage... Wouldn't want to push it under load though.. We'll see... Thanks..
I think I had sulfation that had hardened for YEARS, but it seems it has finally been returned to "active duty". The key to desulfating a battery is "patience". It takes quite a bit of time for the sulfation to get broken up. I do think desulfating works better in the heat of summer. I'm not convinced it does much in the wintertime.

Today, I charged the 12V battery to full and then drove it. When I returned, I put a voltmeter on the 12V battery and it rose up to 12.85V after about an hour. I have *never* seen this battery go to such a high voltage after shutting off the LEAF. That's the kind of voltage I tend to see only with brand new flooded batteries.
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K miles: Apr 14, 2013, 20K miles (55.7Ah): Aug 7, 2014, 30K miles (52.0Ah): Dec 30, 2015, 40K miles (49.8Ah): Feb 8, 2017, 50K miles (47.2Ah): Dec 7, 2017.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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JimSouCal
Posts: 860
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Re: 12v Battery

Sun Aug 07, 2016 2:00 pm

RegGuheert wrote:
JimSouCal wrote:Appreciate the update as an encouragement. I've used a CTEK a few times on the weekend. I'd inadvertently left the OBD reader plugged in for 16 day to find a drained 12V battery. With a 2011 wondered if I'd just killed the lead acid battery, but so far, it's holding voltage... Wouldn't want to push it under load though.. We'll see... Thanks..
I think I had sulfation that had hardened for YEARS, but it seems it has finally been returned to "active duty". The key to desulfating a battery is "patience". It takes quite a bit of time for the sulfation to get broken up. I do think desulfating works better in the heat of summer. I'm not convinced it does much in the wintertime.

Today, I charged the 12V battery to full and then drove it. When I returned, I put a voltmeter on the 12V battery and it rose up to 12.85V after about an hour. I have *never* seen this battery go to such a high voltage after shutting off the LEAF. That's the kind of voltage I tend to see only with brand new flooded batteries.
I am left to wonder WHY modern cars, especially the LEAF, don't have an integrated desulfication routine? Perhaps because less lead acid batteries would be sold? Humm....

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