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Marktm
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Leaf Number: 022737
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Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:11 pm

csites wrote:LeafSpy has a logging option which will automatically send the logs to DropBox. Easy setup - it will ask you for your ID/PW after you enable logging. (Also to supplement the phone battery, I daisy-chained a USB battery between the phone and 12v cigarette lighter style power adapter)

Also wonder if I had the 3.3 kW onboard charger of the original car design instead of the later 6.6 kW charger, I might also not have this problem - again since the charging would take longer, leaving the built-in 12v battery maintainer on longer.


I'll definitely use that feature when I get set up with LeafSpy - thanks

I've had the 2012 3.3kw charger operating with the original battery now for about 8 months. I consistently charge level 2 when ever the battery is depleted below 20-30 miles remaining range - just so I have enough range to take a trip into Houston if needed. My Leaf is a 9 bar with limited range, so that compounds the need to keep charge near 100%. I've been monitoring the 12 volt "system" and know that it is often in the 12.1 to 12.4 volt range which is not good for the battery (SOC is below 60% much of the time). That combined with an "old" battery has prompted me to use the battery "tender" is often as I remember to hook it up. I keep a connector that is easily attached for convenience.

Your issue seems to indicate an intermittent "parasitic" type load OR a charge profile that is even worse than the "norm" and the battery is being continually but slowly drained (which could also be a very small continuous "parasitic" load?). Either way, if you can continuously monitor the battery voltage, it might tell the story. There are many posts about this issue and some have charted battery voltages that show the apparent "poor" charging profiles. It is hard to believe that many "bad" batteries!

Keep us informed.
2012 Leaf SL; 36,000 miles. Battery replaced November 1st, 2016.

TimLee
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Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:37 am

Danl wrote:... I said I did not get data in that timeframe. I assume it went down sometime during the Aug 2nd time that LeafSpy did not get data.

Thanks,
Dan

That is the problem in attempting to use LEAF Spy Pro to analyze a vampire power loss.
You do not get any data when you need the data.
So as you clearly explained the graphs pretty much useless.

As a 5.6 year LEAF driver, the correct answer is to hook up a low amp CTEK or Battery minder all the time the LEAF is in the garage and always unplug the EVSE when charging is finished.

While the car is charging the CTEK or Battery Minder does not do much as the DC to DC on the LEAF is holding 13V.
But the rest of the time it will keep the 12V in good condition.

The Nissan DC to DC is a very powerful 100 amp capable 12V charger.
But the Nissan programming of it does a pathethic job of keeping the 12V fully charged.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

Henryv
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Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:08 am

Thanks Tim most appreciated.
Is it OK to have the CTEK conditioner attached to the 12v while the Leaf is charging?
I thought it was better to keep the car connected to the wall charger even after it is charged?

Danl
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Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:12 am

Please delete.
Last edited by Danl on Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 SilverLeaf, bought used with 25200 miles

Danl
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Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:13 am

TimLee wrote:The Nissan DC to DC is a very powerful 100 amp capable 12V charger.
But the Nissan programming of it does a pathethic job of keeping the 12V fully charged.


Hi Tim,
I have not had any more events since Aug 2nd. However, I am thinking that the problem is really that the "brains" in the car, or in the NissanConnect system are, on occasion, turning something on. I have had 3 or 4 events between April and August where I went out to the car in the morning with the climate control doing something even though all pre-conditioning timers are off. I live in a area where 2g phones are flakey and I am thinking that NissanConnect may have tried to communicate but confused the data link. In a case like that anything can happen.

So I agree that LeafSpy logged data does not catch events when the car is off and not charging, but the purpose of looking at logged data is to see the SOC of the 12v when the DC to DC is not holding the 12v up to 13 or 14v. If I see a droop below 12v then that is an "almost fail" event.

I expect Nissan will never find this bug. When they get complaints about it I expect they spend all their time trying to prove that the dc-dc programing is really ok rather than looking for the real root cause, which may be a poor NissanConnect system.

Thanks,
Dan
2013 SilverLeaf, bought used with 25200 miles

csites
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Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:26 am

Danl wrote:I live in a area where 2g phones are flakey and I am thinking that NissanConnect may have tried to communicate but confused the data link. In a case like that anything can happen.
...
I expect Nissan will never find this bug. When they get complaints about it I expect they spend all their time trying to prove that the dc-dc programing is really ok rather than looking for the real root cause, which may be a poor NissanConnect system.
Dan


Wow, I've been wondering all along whether NissanConnect might be related. With the every 6-months or so dead battery that I get, I wondered whether that was the interval at which AT&T was doing some overnight testing or resetting or something.

And so I wonder if the 3g upgrade cards we're supposed to be offered before the end of the year might avoid the problem (or if it might get worse if I don't upgrade and 2g gets turned off)

All speculation on my part though. I've never had anything concrete to link the problem to NissanConnect.
2013 Leaf SV - Built 03/13 - Pearl White - QC Port - LED Headlights - Bosch PowerMax 240LC EVSE - New drive battery for $500 (mostly covered by Nissan) at 75k miles!

BrockWI
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Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:47 am

I am with Dan on this except I have an S with no 2g (that I know of) so I am ruling that out. But I do believe it is the car doing something that either doesn't shut off by accident or tries to do that runs the 12v way down and once it realizes the 12v is low the car tries to close the high voltage contactors to recharge the 12v battery which really run the 12v dead.

In any case I agree that it is to random for Nissan to track down and I doubt even if one of us did, that Nissan would make a change anyway.
3 kw solar pv - XW6048 - eight L16's
4 ton GSHP
2003 VW TDI 180k miles - 52 mpg lifetime
evse level 2 - Clipper Creek HSC-40
2013 S model with QC package Mar of 2013
@70k miles - 56.56Ahr - 86 SOH - 82.55 Hx - 245 GID

TimLee
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Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:41 pm

Henryv wrote:...
Is it OK to have the CTEK conditioner attached to the 12v while the Leaf is charging?
I thought it was better to keep the car connected to the wall charger even after it is charged?

It is OK and what I do.
But while the DC to DC is holding 13V on the battery the CTEK isn't doing much.

It is bad to leave the EVSE hooked to the LEAF for any significant period of time after charging completes.
As long as it is hooked up the LEAF has much higher 12V loads and also Nissan's programming is messed up and the DC to DC isn't available to charge the 12V.
Numerous people have come back from a 10 day vacation where the EVSE was plugged up to the LEAF and found the 12V battery dead in the water.
And the LEAF dead in the wayer till jumped off with a good 12V source.
Last edited by TimLee on Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tim Lee
Chattanooga, TN

Man. Date: 03/10/11, VIN # 2026
Delivered 05-17-2011
Blue Ocean, 2011 SL-eTec

Henryv
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:52 am
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2015

Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:03 am

TimLee wrote:
Henryv wrote:...
Is it OK to have the CTEK conditioner attached to the 12v while the Leaf is charging?
I thought it was better to keep the car connected to the wall charger even after it is charged?

It is OK and what I do.
But while the DC to DC is holding 13V on the battery the CTEK isn't doing much.

It is bad to leave the EVSE hooked to the LEAF for any significsnt period of time after charging completes.
As long as it is hooked up the LEAF has much higher 12V loads and also Nissan's programming is messed up and the DC to DC isn't available to charge the 12V.
Numerous people have come back from a 10 day vacation where the EVSE was plugged up to the LEAF and found the 12V battery dead in the water.
And the LEAF dead in the wayer till jumped off with a good 12V source.



Excellent Tim!!
It all makes perfect sense!


Thank you.


Henry.

csites
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Re: Tip: How to Recharge the 12-volt Battery

Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:45 am

Here's an update to my original post which started this thread:

Nissan Aftersales arranged for a service technician from Nissan (not from the dealer) to meet me at my local dealer. The Nissan service technician installed two software updates. The work order reads, "Reprogrammed PDM and EV control units".

Now I wait for 6-9 months and hope for the best.
2013 Leaf SV - Built 03/13 - Pearl White - QC Port - LED Headlights - Bosch PowerMax 240LC EVSE - New drive battery for $500 (mostly covered by Nissan) at 75k miles!

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