Swamibob
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:15 pm
Delivery Date: 19 May 2013
Leaf Number: 404033
Location: Florida

2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:39 pm

Hi all this is my fist post. I first bough my Leaf used about a year ago with 22000 miles. When I bought it there were 12 bars, but within a month it had dropped to 11. I'm guessing it was probably about to go to 11 anyway and thought that wasn't too bad. I have always charged it to 80% capacity ever since i have owned it and about once a week I fully charge it to balance the cells. I have driven it for about 7000 miles so I am now at 29,250 and it has dropped all the way to 9 bars. I just read and downloaded LeafSpy Lite and have some numbers to share. I fully charged the leaf last night and when i got up this morning, I started up the car and then ran leafspy. Here are my results.

bat stats: AHr=43.71 SOH=66% 393.56v Hx=60.14 At the bottom it says SOC=96.4

So does this mean my battery is only 66% capacity of a new battery pack? Am i close to being able to claim a warranty on the battery. When it was fully charged this morning it showed 70 miles at 100% capacity. Will this recover at all if i do more full charges, or if I do a more complete cycle like down to turtle then fully charge it back?

Thanks for the info,
Robert

LeftieBiker
Posts: 6777
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2013
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:29 pm

It appears that you are close to qualifying for a new pack. Check the car's build date on the door sticker: I'd bet serious money that it was built between January and March (including March) of 2013. Those early build packs apparently used the old 2011-2012 battery chemistry, albeit in the same new package as the rest of the 2013 cars, and they lose capacity fast.
2013 "Brilliant Silver" SV with Premium Package and no QC, and 2009 Vectrix VX-1 with 18 Leaf cells.

The most offensive, tasteless phrase in use here is "Pulled the trigger." I no longer respond to posts that use it.

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6965
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:28 pm

OP, where are you located? Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

Where did the Leaf reside before?

I agree w/what Leftie said. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if you were the victim of a BMS reset and that the car originally had maybe only 10 or 11 CBs showing when it was turned in or first sold used.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Swamibob
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:15 pm
Delivery Date: 19 May 2013
Leaf Number: 404033
Location: Florida

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:32 pm

I am located in FL. It was a lease car in Miami before I bought it from Don Mealey Mazda in Orlando. How is it possible to do a BMS reset? Is it just a temporary way to make someone think it is full power then it shortly drops back down?
Last edited by Swamibob on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Swamibob
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:15 pm
Delivery Date: 19 May 2013
Leaf Number: 404033
Location: Florida

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:34 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:It appears that you are close to qualifying for a new pack. Check the car's build date on the door sticker: I'd bet serious money that it was built between January and March (including March) of 2013. Those early build packs apparently used the old 2011-2012 battery chemistry, albeit in the same new package as the rest of the 2013 cars, and they lose capacity fast.


Build date 02/13

dhanson865
Moderator
Posts: 1476
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 7:12 am
Leaf Number: 16156
Location: Tennessee

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:06 pm

Swamibob wrote:bat stats: AHr=43.71 SOH=66% 393.56v Hx=60.14 At the bottom it says SOC=96.4

So does this mean my battery is only 66% capacity of a new battery pack? Am i close to being able to claim a warranty on the battery. When it was fully charged this morning it showed 70 miles at 100% capacity. Will this recover at all if i do more full charges, or if I do a more complete cycle like down to turtle then fully charge it back?

Thanks for the info,
Robert



Congrats, looks like you'll win the lottery. My 2012 still has 73% SOH so no free pack for me. But you will likely get a free pack in 2017.

Don't bother trying to recover, nothing you do will make a big difference. Just drive it as much as you like, charge it as much as you need to and be prepared to give it up for a few days while they replace the pack (when that time comes, maybe spring 2017?).
2012 Leaf tires 195/65/15 Dunlop Enasave 01 A/S, 15" Rims
wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss
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Swamibob
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:15 pm
Delivery Date: 19 May 2013
Leaf Number: 404033
Location: Florida

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:52 pm

How much more AHr does it need to drop until I will lose another bar and qualify for the battery under warranty?

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6965
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:03 am

Swamibob wrote:I am located in FL. It was a lease car in Miami before I bought it from Don Mealey Mazda in Orlando. How is it possible to do a BMS reset? Is it just a temporary way to make someone think it is full power then it shortly drops back down?

Yours is not the first nor only case we've heard of this. http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... -read.html was one. There have been others

IIRC, a dealer tech is supposed to do an intentional reset if the big battery is changed. Unfortunately, it seems some unscrupulous folks have been doing this w/o replacing the battery.

IIRC, also during the Phoenix battery degradation debacle, some customer cars were temporarily borrowed by Nissan corporate and at least one came back with the display reset to 12 CBs. It eventually crept back to the original level. I thought I recall reading this. Hopefully someone can confirm my story or tell me I'm wrong.
Swamibob wrote:How much more AHr does it need to drop until I will lose another bar and qualify for the battery under warranty?

viewtopic.php?p=455984#p455984 is one table I've found.

But yeah, being down 3 bars w/a pre-4/2013 battery in a warm/hot climate before the 5 year/60K capacity warranty is up isn't surprising.

I still have all 12 bars on my 5/2013 built used '13 Leaf SV. I'm in a hotter part of the SF Bay Area. As of earlier tonight my stats were these:
AHr: 57.68
SOH: 88%
Hx: 86.98%
odo: 40,340 miles

I am getting closer to losing a capacity bar... sometimes Hx is down to 84.xx%.
Last edited by cwerdna on Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

Swamibob
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:15 pm
Delivery Date: 19 May 2013
Leaf Number: 404033
Location: Florida

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:00 am

cwerdna wrote:
Swamibob wrote:I am located in FL. It was a lease car in Miami before I bought it from Don Mealey Mazda in Orlando. How is it possible to do a BMS reset? Is it just a temporary way to make someone think it is full power then it shortly drops back down?

Yours is not the first nor only case we've heard of this. http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11 ... -read.html was one. There have been others

IIRC, a dealer tech is supposed to do an intentional reset if the big battery is changed. Unfortunately, it seems some unscrupulous folks have been doing this w/o replacing the battery.

IIRC, also during the Phoenix battery degradation debacle, some customer cars were temporarily borrowed by Nissan corporate and at least one came back with the display reset to 12 CBs. It eventually crept back to the original level. I thought I recall reading this. Hopefully someone can confirm my story or tell me I'm wrong.
Swamibob wrote:How much more AHr does it need to drop until I will lose another bar and qualify for the battery under warranty?

viewtopic.php?p=455984#p455984 is one table I've found.

But yeah, being down 3 bars w/a pre-4/2013 battery in a warm/hot climate before the 5 year/60K capacity warranty is up isn't surprising.

I'm still have all 12 bars on my 5/2013 built used '13 Leaf SV. I'm in a hotter part of the SF Bay Area. As of earlier tonight my stats were these:
AHr: 57.68
SOH: 88%
Hx: 86.98%
odo: 40,340 miles

I am getting closer to losing a capacity bar... sometimes Hx is down to 84.xx%.


Thanks for this information. It really irritates me that someone reset this to make it look like it was in better condition than it really was. This is like electronically resetting the odometer and saying it was never driven, then you buy the car and notice there is no tread left on the tires and brakes are worn out with only 100 miles on the car. I've only put 7000 miles on the car and it dropped from 12 to almost 8 bars, it just doesn't add up, especially since I was trying to baby it after learning that keeping it between 80%-20% charge would help extend the life of the battery, and then watching the bars tick off month after month.

Since i have owned the car I have ran it on 80% long life mode most of the time, only full charging it about once a week since I had read that you should full charge it sometimes to balance the cells. Now I find out it's about shot anyway. I'm sure whoever leased it just charged to 100% all the time because if you didn't plan on keeping it why would you worry about it or they may not have even known that they had an 80% setting.

So, if I want to speed this along and get it to the 8 bar level so Nissan will do something about it, should I just start full charging it all the time and running it to low battery, or doesn't it really make that much difference. From the looks of it, i'm gonna hit 8 bars any day now since that other post said you will lose bar 9 between 41.75 and 44 AHr and i'm already at 43.71.

Thanks again everyone, this has been an educational experience.

Rob

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 6965
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:17 am

There are a few positive things. You're at least aware of the capacity warranty. I've seen at least one person semi-recently who claimed he was unaware and passed his 5 years/60K miles, insisting that he was probably down to 8 bars before it expired. But, he didn't know and AFAIK, it was never documented by a Nissan dealer. Oh well.

Another is that you have a pre-4/0213 built Leaf degraded this badly already. Those batteries seem worse in terms of degradation. If you had a 4/2013 or later built Leaf treated the same way by the previous driver, you might not win the battery lottery and might not hit 8 bars before the 5 year/60K capacity is up in your climate. I'm 95% certain I won't in mine.

There are threads like viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19967 to read/exchange notes on the loss of the 4th capacity bar.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

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