SageBrush
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:47 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.

Hard to stomach, is it not ?

Our LEAF is doing fine for our use case, but when I see similar degradation rates it just makes me want to sell the car.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California with 63.9 Ahr after 22k miles
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado

WetEV
Posts: 1785
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:39 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.


Do remember that this is the BMS's (Battery Management System) estimate, and the BMS isn't very accurate at estimating capacity. It can be off by 10%, and maybe more. Why do I say that?

My current estimate is that I have about a 10% loss, with 38000 miles on my 2014. I base my estimate on recharging power, range at known speed on a round trip with little wind, and so on. At times the BMS has agreed. However, my driving/charging varies a lot. So I get to see some more interesting estimates from the BMS than perhaps most people do.

My Ahr has been as low as 57.8. My SOH has been as low as 88% My Hx has been as low as 87.35%

My BMS showed zero loss on 11/20/2017. Ahr= 65.64, SOH= 100% HX= 100.59%
BMS yesterday showed this(11/29/2017). Ahr = 61.60, SOH= 94%, Hx= 94.91%

Gee, 6% loss in 9 days. Should I panic?
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:44 am

WetEV wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.


Do remember that this is the BMS's (Battery Management System) estimate, and the BMS isn't very accurate at estimating capacity. It can be off by 10%, and maybe more. Why do I say that?

My current estimate is that I have about a 10% loss, with 38000 miles on my 2014. I base my estimate on recharging power, range at known speed on a round trip with little wind, and so on. At times the BMS has agreed. However, my driving/charging varies a lot. So I get to see some more interesting estimates from the BMS than perhaps most people do.

My Ahr has been as low as 57.8. My SOH has been as low as 88% My Hx has been as low as 87.35%

My BMS showed zero loss on 11/20/2017. Ahr= 65.64, SOH= 100% HX= 100.59%
BMS yesterday showed this(11/29/2017). Ahr = 61.60, SOH= 94%, Hx= 94.91%

Gee, 6% loss in 9 days. Should I panic?


There must be something wrong with your BMS. I've never seen SOH fluctuate that wildly before. Are these your calculated SOH or readings from LeafSpy?

I had a 2013 (see my sig) that didn't degrade anywhere like my 2016 is degrading. All the readings in my sig are at 100% SOC for consistency.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

WetEV
Posts: 1785
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:12 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:There must be something wrong with your BMS. I've never seen SOH fluctuate that wildly before. Are these your calculated SOH or readings from LeafSpy?

I had a 2013 (see my sig) that didn't degrade anywhere like my 2016 is degrading. All the readings in my sig are at 100% SOC for consistency.



This is from LeafSpy.

Some of the reasons why my SOH fluctuates that wildly is that my driving varies a lot. Weeks with multiple long trips of 180+ miles per day and multiple DCQCs mixed with months of short drives of a few miles, charging for an hour once a week to keep the SOC above 30% and below 80%. Temperature matters a lot as well.

Back when my driving was much more consistent, I didn't see as much variability.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Gold Member
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:21 pm

WetEV wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:There must be something wrong with your BMS. I've never seen SOH fluctuate that wildly before. Are these your calculated SOH or readings from LeafSpy?

I had a 2013 (see my sig) that didn't degrade anywhere like my 2016 is degrading. All the readings in my sig are at 100% SOC for consistency.



This is from LeafSpy.

Some of the reasons why my SOH fluctuates that wildly is that my driving varies a lot. Weeks with multiple long trips of 180+ miles per day and multiple DCQCs mixed with months of short drives of a few miles, charging for an hour once a week to keep the SOC above 30% and below 80%. Temperature matters a lot as well.

Back when my driving was much more consistent, I didn't see as much variability.


I see. Well, my daily commute *cough* grind *cough* is ~60 miles (even my weekend errands cover ~50 miles), so there's less chance of variability.

Plus it sounds like you should re-balance your pack before taking a reading for better consistency.
[2013 leaf traded for 2016 leaf S30:
build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
1 May 2017 - 7300 miles & 363 GIDs
6 Sep 2017 - 13k miles & 359 GIDs
26 Oct 2017 - 15.5k miles & 344 GIDs
26 Nov 2017 - 17.1k miles & 332 GIDs]

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 12332
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:58 pm

WetEV wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:and then it started declining not too long after - down 9% in the next 6-months.


Do remember that this is the BMS's (Battery Management System) estimate, and the BMS isn't very accurate at estimating capacity. It can be off by 10%, and maybe more. Why do I say that?

My current estimate is that I have about a 10% loss, with 38000 miles on my 2014. I base my estimate on recharging power, range at known speed on a round trip with little wind, and so on. At times the BMS has agreed. However, my driving/charging varies a lot. So I get to see some more interesting estimates from the BMS than perhaps most people do.

My Ahr has been as low as 57.8. My SOH has been as low as 88% My Hx has been as low as 87.35%

My BMS showed zero loss on 11/20/2017. Ahr= 65.64, SOH= 100% HX= 100.59%
BMS yesterday showed this(11/29/2017). Ahr = 61.60, SOH= 94%, Hx= 94.91%

Gee, 6% loss in 9 days. Should I panic?


LOL, this is normal cold weather effects. I laugh when I read about everyone in the Southern Tier being encouraged because their battery stats go up when it gets cold while mine go down when its cold.

Now a lot of mine going down has to do with long periods of low usage. Its always slow for me from Nov to the day after Christmas so that is part of it. As always I will do a blog on my monthly driving log and it will be "slightly" lower than my 2500 mile per month average over the past 7 months
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 (build 10/2016)"low water marks" 27,000 miles.363GID Ahr 79.13Hx95.17%kwh28.1QCs238,L2's 251
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

inphoenix
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:54 am
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Phoenix! AZ

Lost a bar (capacity loss) in a 9 month old 2017 Leaf

Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:06 am

Pretty darn bummed to find that I lost a bar this morning. The car is 9 months old with 9600 miles on it. Has been QCed only twice but yes it has been charged everyday to 100%. Glad that it is only a 2 year lease.
2014 S/QC - dropped first bar at 28K, second at 32.5K, Lease ended in April '17.
2015 Tesla MS
2017 S/QC - 2 year lease (going back in April '19)
JuiceBox Pro 40A EVSE

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7261
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:15 am

3 bar loser reported at https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 726782561/ at 8,666 miles.

At https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... 22R9%22%7D, he states he lives near Orlando, FL. At https://www.facebook.com/groups/nissan. ... %22R%22%7D he states a build month of 2/16 and he bought it in 9/16.

He's obviously well on his way to getting a replacement.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

cwerdna
Gold Member
Posts: 7261
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Lost a bar (capacity loss) in a 9 month old 2017 Leaf

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:23 pm

Mods, please merge this into viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606.

'13 blue Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 blue Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)
'06 Prius

inphoenix
Posts: 279
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:54 am
Delivery Date: 30 Sep 2015
Location: Phoenix! AZ

Re: Lost a bar (capacity loss) in a 9 month old 2017 Leaf

Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:41 pm

cwerdna wrote:Mods, please merge this into viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23606.


Thanks cwerdna. I tried to search and could not find that thread earlier. It is disappointing to see so many new cars having battery (capacity loss) issues. :(
2014 S/QC - dropped first bar at 28K, second at 32.5K, Lease ended in April '17.
2015 Tesla MS
2017 S/QC - 2 year lease (going back in April '19)
JuiceBox Pro 40A EVSE

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