rcm4453
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Mon May 28, 2018 7:06 pm

mn4az wrote:
johnlocke wrote:First bar drops at about 80% so around 40,000 mi. 4th bar drops around 65% so maybe 70,000 mi. 4-5 years into the warranty, Could I ask What you mean by babying the battery? Charging habits? I'd like to know what you tried. There is a bit of an argument over whether better charging habits can help preserve the battery or if it doesn't make any difference how you charge. You are one of the first people in the northern tier to report serious battery degradation.


Here's the list of things I have tried to do:

-Keep in a 25%-80% SOC.
-When above 80% SOC try to drive as soon as possible.
-On occasion when below <25% have charged just enough to get to 25% - 30%.
-During cold winter days (ie <30F for high temp) charge to 100% SOC but drive as quickly as possible upon charge completion
-When on vacation let car sit at 40-60% SOC
-Most charging done between 2a - 8a (not charging when battery is hot).
-Charging done on ClipperCreek LCS-25, 240V, 20A (slower than most)
-Always in ECO mode.

Car sits in an open parking lot for 7-8 hours/day while at work and a connected/covered garage when it's home and I bet that over 50% of the miles are at >55MPH.

We've been Leaf drivers since our leased '13 SV (mostly charged to 80%) and our other EV is a Tesla. After turning in the '13 with 45k miles and zero bar loss (didn't have LeafSpy at the time for measurements) we purchased the '16 SV (bought in April '16 - manufacturing date was Dec '15). I wanted a good 10 years out of it: 4 years of adults driving and 6 years of kid driving and I expected some degradation. Thus, I tried to "baby" the battery using the above methods. Now that I know it's not making a difference I am not going waste my time any more. Just going to charge it to 100% SOC during my off peak times and enjoy driving it knowing that a new battery is very likely in it's future.

One thing that charging to 100% will allow me to do is to collect more data points. My guess is I will start taking LeafSpy readings on monthly basis (ie first Saturday of the month).

One random point.... I know a guy that lives 7 miles from me with an '11 Leaf and similar driving patterns. His data shows about a 1% SOH drop every 2500 miles which is VERY similar to mine. Makes me wonder if driving patterns/habit/temperature is more important than how one charges the car.



I'm in Wayzata, MN and my 2016 30kwh Leaf lost it's 2nd bar a couple weeks ago.


October 2017 first bar lost:

Mfg date: 12/15
Mileage: 19,648
SOH: 80%
AHr: 64.20
Hx: 75.86%
SOC: 97.4
GIDS: 293
22.7 kWh

May 2018 2nd bar lost:

Mileage: 26,681
SOH: 75.45%
AHr: 59.97
Hx: 68.83%
SOC: 82.8%
GIDS: 239
18.5 kWh

I stopped babying my battery as soon as I noticed the rapid degradation, despite my best efforts to preserve it. My neighbor has a 2013 Leaf with around 65k miles and still has all 12 bars (he doesn't baby his battery at all). He can't believe I've already lost 2 of my bars!

mn4az
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 pm
Location: Prior Lake, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue May 29, 2018 5:23 am

rcm4453 wrote:
I'm in Wayzata, MN and my 2016 30kwh Leaf lost it's 2nd bar a couple weeks ago.


October 2017 first bar lost:

Mfg date: 12/15
Mileage: 19,648
SOH: 80%
AHr: 64.20
Hx: 75.86%
SOC: 97.4
GIDS: 293
22.7 kWh

May 2018 2nd bar lost:

Mileage: 26,681
SOH: 75.45%
AHr: 59.97
Hx: 68.83%
SOC: 82.8%
GIDS: 239
18.5 kWh

I stopped babying my battery as soon as I noticed the rapid degradation, despite my best efforts to preserve it. My neighbor has a 2013 Leaf with around 65k miles and still has all 12 bars (he doesn't baby his battery at all). He can't believe I've already lost 2 of my bars!


I am amazed as well. This thread has degradation like that in warm/hot climates, but here in the Twin Cities..... Yikes.

Given that rcm4453 and my manufacture date are the same has anyone been able to correlate to a that ?

mn4az
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 5:24 pm
Location: Prior Lake, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue May 29, 2018 11:04 am

Has there been an effort by anyone to communicate directly with Nissan about what we in this forum are seeing w.r.t. the '16 battery degradation?


Selfishly I'd love to have Nissan identify the problem so that when my turn for replacement comes up its a MUCH better pack. :-)

Phatcat73
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:44 pm
Leaf Number: 401511
Location: Buffalo Grove, Il

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue May 29, 2018 12:25 pm

There are existing warranty claims on '16 packs that have been processed. I'm sure Nissan is aware.

Similarly, I'm predicting to lose our first bar at the end of the summer, at around 20k miles. (currently 16k miles and 88% SOH). Our March build 2013 maintained a 100% SOH until about 30k miles and didn't lose it's first bar until 40k.
2018 Tesla Model 3 AWD - Delivery due end of September 2018
2016 SV; leased 20-Jan-17, 16k, 90% SOH; 29-May-18
2015 S; purchased 29-July-14, moved to AZ Nov-2014, 22k, 82% SOH; 01-Mar-18
2009 Ford Escape Hybrid 4x2, 111k & going strong!

rcm4453
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:35 pm
Leaf Number: 304133
Location: Wayzata, MN

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Tue May 29, 2018 9:19 pm

mn4az wrote:Has there been an effort by anyone to communicate directly with Nissan about what we in this forum are seeing w.r.t. the '16 battery degradation?


Selfishly I'd love to have Nissan identify the problem so that when my turn for replacement comes up its a MUCH better pack. :-)


I contacted the Nissan EV hotline when I lost my 1st bar. They basically blew me off saying what I'm experiencing is completely normal, nothing to worry about. If I'm concerned I'm more than welcome to bring the car to my local dealer and have them check the battery. I obviously didn't bother as many before me have done so already and all they say is come back for a battery replacement after the 4th bar drops. I filed a complaint with Nissan letting them know how I feel about it, they couldn't have cared less!


Here is an interesting article talking about the 30kwh packs degrading more rapidly than the 24kwh ones:


https://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-30-kwh-battery-degrading-more-rapidly-than-24-kwh-pack/

dwl
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:06 pm
Delivery Date: 08 Jan 2016
Leaf Number: 112097
Location: New Zealand

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:13 am

LTLFTcomposite wrote:Interested to hear if anyone has had a pack replacement in the last month or so. We are nine weeks now waiting for a replacement.

Another week and no answer? Maybe a good sign if they come up with a better replacement soonish but not good if you need the lost range back now.
2014 S - 6000 km Jan 2016; 45000 km May 2017 95% SoH; 68,000 km Mar 2018 90% SoH

User avatar
LTLFTcomposite
Posts: 4505
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:06 pm
Delivery Date: 10 Dec 2011
Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:03 am

dwl wrote:
LTLFTcomposite wrote:Interested to hear if anyone has had a pack replacement in the last month or so. We are nine weeks now waiting for a replacement.

Another week and no answer? Maybe a good sign if they come up with a better replacement soonish but not good if you need the lost range back now.

Wasn't able to follow up this week with them but will be next week, and becoming more assertive
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

johnlocke
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 14 Dec 2015
Leaf Number: 300582

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:58 pm

Just received approval for a battery replacement last Saturday. No ETA yet for the battery. "We'll call you when it comes in." I'll call them on Monday just to see if they have an ETA.
2016 SV
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County

SageBrush
Posts: 2397
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: Colorado

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:01 pm

30 kWh batteries were such a short lived story, I'm curious to see how Nissan handles warranty inventory and replacement.
2013 Model 'S' with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Car is now enjoying an easy life in Colorado
3/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles

webeleafowners
Posts: 491
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

Re: 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:28 pm

SageBrush wrote:30 kWh batteries were such a short lived story, I'm curious to see how Nissan handles warranty inventory and replacement.



Maybe they”ll use the new 40 kw battery. Is it physically possible?
2015 Smart Electric Drive convertible.
2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh
EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

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